Its just when you come to replace it the sweating begins...
Stick with it..... you'll there
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Cam Timing Help - Please
Moderators: KeithZ1R, chrisu, paul doran, Taffus
Always rotate the engine forwards, that is clockwise looking at the timing cover when doing valve timing.
APE valves, the finish on the stems isn't as good as that of std ones on my set and I have put new seals on the stems after 8Kmiles.
APE valves, the finish on the stems isn't as good as that of std ones on my set and I have put new seals on the stems after 8Kmiles.
Rich
diplomacy is a form of art - I was never any good at art
diplomacy is a form of art - I was never any good at art
bigmac103
What marks can you see on the pistons? Are they impact marks or the valve cutaways?
You say you can get your fingers in between the shim and cam lobe. Are these standard cams with standard lift?
If this clearance is correct and you have half an inch or so it looks like you will have to cut the valve heads off the stems going in through the ports. If you try to release the colletts in the normal way you will be into valve guides before too long as well as the other items!
To bend the valve stems to this extent i would have thought you would have had to have been 'out' by at least several teeth on the valve timing to bend the stems that far up.
What condition is the cam chain in? Also what is the condition of the teeth on the cam sprockets.
With a HY-VO chain on late models it will jump several teeth without even looking at it particularly with the cam cover off.
However i have only limited experience of early model set up but what i have seen suggests that with the intermediate idler in place it is near impossible to dis-engage the chain from its sprocket in the normal course of events even with the tensioner released. My only guess is that the chain is very baggy or the cam wheels are in need of replacement.
What is the general condition of the top end and has it had any history?!!! You know the sort i mean.
Which valves appear to be bent; inlet or exhaust?
Is there any sign of combustion gas leakage in the valve / cam chamber particularly adjacent to the buckets or on the inside of the cam cover?
Apologies to Wingman for taking over his thread but it seems a little pointless to run two near identical topic simultaneously and hopefully peoples comments above will bracket his question also.
More detail needed!!
Al
bigmac103
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject:
Yes I did. I also took Rich's advice and looked at the pistons and they are marked. Plus I don't feeler gauges to measure the gap between cam and shim, my finger fits!!!!!!
What marks can you see on the pistons? Are they impact marks or the valve cutaways?
You say you can get your fingers in between the shim and cam lobe. Are these standard cams with standard lift?
If this clearance is correct and you have half an inch or so it looks like you will have to cut the valve heads off the stems going in through the ports. If you try to release the colletts in the normal way you will be into valve guides before too long as well as the other items!
To bend the valve stems to this extent i would have thought you would have had to have been 'out' by at least several teeth on the valve timing to bend the stems that far up.
What condition is the cam chain in? Also what is the condition of the teeth on the cam sprockets.
With a HY-VO chain on late models it will jump several teeth without even looking at it particularly with the cam cover off.
However i have only limited experience of early model set up but what i have seen suggests that with the intermediate idler in place it is near impossible to dis-engage the chain from its sprocket in the normal course of events even with the tensioner released. My only guess is that the chain is very baggy or the cam wheels are in need of replacement.
What is the general condition of the top end and has it had any history?!!! You know the sort i mean.
Which valves appear to be bent; inlet or exhaust?
Is there any sign of combustion gas leakage in the valve / cam chamber particularly adjacent to the buckets or on the inside of the cam cover?
Apologies to Wingman for taking over his thread but it seems a little pointless to run two near identical topic simultaneously and hopefully peoples comments above will bracket his question also.
More detail needed!!
Al
) using a quick blip of the starter 
I am in the process of taking it apart. I should have the head off by Wednesday (that four letter word is getting in the way "work"). I will post pictures and let you see what has happened. I also think the cam guide is very sloppy/loose, the chain it self sticks to the camshaft wheels like sh*t to a blanket.
I did the damage by attempting DIY maintenance. I hold my hand up to that. I picked the bike up in September from Stafford and rode her all the way via the Bibao ferry to Southern Spain (Jerez). I then do about 1000 Kilometres a week. In all this time she started first time and ran like a dream. I thought doing this (by the book) maintenance would ensure this trend to continued. Wish I'd just left it alone now!
B
I did the damage by attempting DIY maintenance. I hold my hand up to that. I picked the bike up in September from Stafford and rode her all the way via the Bibao ferry to Southern Spain (Jerez). I then do about 1000 Kilometres a week. In all this time she started first time and ran like a dream. I thought doing this (by the book) maintenance would ensure this trend to continued. Wish I'd just left it alone now!
B
Lost in the desert somewhere
Al, just a point regards the proper ROUND cam cover motors.... on me Z1A Wink
I managed to "slip" a cam chain when I turned the engine over (without tensioner in place Embarassed ) using a quick blip of the starter Evil or Very Mad
Mark that kind of doesnt surprise me. I bet you could have got away with turning that crank all day with a 17mm spanner but that instantaneous jolt of the starter motor and the reflex and co-responding backlash is probably what done the dirty deed for you.
my major fuckup was years ago on a single cylinder bike.......
Ditto. And the list grows exponentially.
Put the J back together three years ago and didnt know to replace the tiny top hat rubber at the bottom of the inlet side tensioner blade. From start up it sounded like the anvil bast&8d chorus. Bu**er.
Set about replacing the £2.57 detent gearbox spring on my Jota 180 twenty years ago. £1270 later it worked perfectly. Dont ask!
AL
Put the J back together three years ago and didnt know to replace the tiny top hat rubber at the bottom of the inlet side tensioner blade. From start up it sounded like the anvil bast&8d chorus. Bu**er.
AL
You mean the one that looks like a wine gum
Mines oblong in the ELR... not 'top hat' 
And on the 7th day... Zeds were created!
Pigford
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:55 pm Post subject:
Quote:
Put the J back together three years ago and didnt know to replace the tiny top hat rubber at the bottom of the inlet side tensioner blade. From start up it sounded like the anvil bast&8d chorus. Bu**er.
AL
You mean the one that looks like a wine gum Question Mines oblong in the ELR... not 'top hat' Confused
Thats the one mark. SHOULD look like a wine gum but mine didnt and looking at it, I thought it had been scientifically and technically engineered in that way. Little did i know that it had taken a set down the millenia and by then was useless as a chocolate fireguard.
Ding ding clatter clatter ding dong ding clatter (join in with the chorus) glang glang glang. Expletive expletive expletive. Question the existence of certain heavenly icons............. few more expletives and rip it down again.
AL
The motorcycle engineer has bottled out, so I am commited ro do this job on my own! I am going to start removing the head tommorow and post pictures as I go so I´ll start a new thread.
Apart from a 4lb hammer, chisle and a reel of sticky back plastic what specialised tools if any might I need?
Bill
Apart from a 4lb hammer, chisle and a reel of sticky back plastic what specialised tools if any might I need?
Bill
Lost in the desert somewhere
You can slip a tooth on "proper" chain Zeds, you know those with the square covers and proper crank 
just rotate it backwards without a tensioner.
Don't bother to take the sprockets off the cams you don't need to.
Check the valves haven't had the tips ground when you take them out, check installed height when you put new ones back in.
just rotate it backwards without a tensioner.
Don't bother to take the sprockets off the cams you don't need to.
Check the valves haven't had the tips ground when you take them out, check installed height when you put new ones back in.
Rich
diplomacy is a form of art - I was never any good at art
diplomacy is a form of art - I was never any good at art
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