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Baffled and exhausted

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Hack
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Baffled and exhausted

#1 PostAuthor: Hack » Wed May 07, 2008 8:33 pm

This is for the thinkers amongst you, the rest can look away now (just joking!).

I fitted a new pattern 4-4 exhaust to my Z900A4 last summer and found that it was way too loud (in my opinion), i.e. much louder than any standard exhaust I remember from my younger days. I initially thought this was due to a faulty baffle and the pipe in question was replaced by the supplier. The new pipe is a bit quieter but it still seems too loud.

The general perception is that the pattern systems are constructed in the style of the original Z1 with removable baffles, unlike the KHI genuine pipes which are the more restrictive (and quieter) 1976 version.

Well, after a bit of investigation with an endoscope (ooh err missus!) I have concluded that this is not true and that the pattern pipes have the later 1976 internals but have the original 1973 design baffles fitted. The upshot of this is that there is even less restriction than the original design. See the diagram below (sorry for the file size and the poor drawings).

In each case the gas enters from the left and exits on the right.

Fig 1 shows a standard Z1 exhaust.
Exhaust gas passes from A into the baffle pipe until it meets the blank mid-way along B, it then enters chamber B where some passes back into the baffle beyond the blank and some goes via the balance pipe to chamber B of the associated exhaust. The wadding and small holes in the baffle at chamber C are only to absorb sound (like the induction silencer on Z900A4 air filter), no gas passes into chamber C.

Fig 2 shows a standard Z900A4 exhaust and apart from the shape, this system is completely different from the original Z1.
As the baffle pipe blank is located at the extreme LHS all exhaust gas passes via a tube from A directly to C, the gas then turns 180 degrees and passes through another tube from C into B. At this point the gas splits with some entering the baffle tube to exit and some passing via the balance pipe to B of the associated exhaust.

Fig 3 shows (my) pattern exhaust (1976 construction with 1973 baffle)
If you look at this you will see that the gas can get out just about anyway it chooses!! No wonder it seems loud.

Image

Am I right?

Am I the only one to have come across this?

The bike looks good and runs great - “ better than with the previous 4-1 system

I'm still researching this at the moment so don't leave your pride and joy where I may stumble across it as I never leave the house without a gas-axe and a petrol driven angle grinder!

What's the solution?
It would appear that without much effort I could adapt the baffle or blank off the inner pipework to achieve either of the original designs although I'd like to think the manufacturers should address the issue (no chance).
I could live with it - “ most likely.

Any thoughts?

Andy
Last edited by Hack on Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Geoff Meager
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#2 PostAuthor: Geoff Meager » Wed May 07, 2008 9:50 pm

Got my pattern 4 into 4 from Zpower......
they sound alright to me.................................( when it's firing on all four ) :oops:

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#3 PostAuthor: RALPHARAMA » Wed May 07, 2008 11:23 pm

Louder pipes save lives! The modern uber quiet bikes of today can't be heard by cars, and lets be honest, the vast majority of car drivers don't look for bikes! The Harris on my bike is legal (at the time) and isn't offensively noisy but at least there is a chance of fellow motorists hearing it. If a race baffle came my way I would almost certainly fit it!
Ralph Ferrand
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Steve Cooke
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Re: Baffled and exhausted

#4 PostAuthor: Steve Cooke » Thu May 08, 2008 2:29 am

[quote="Hack"]
Am I the only one to have come across this?

Most of us wouldn't have an endoscope
:)
Interesting observations though.

Hack
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#5 PostAuthor: Hack » Thu May 08, 2008 6:27 am

Thanks guys

Geoff, I also got mine from Z-Power. The supplier isn't in question here. I imagine all of these pattern systems come from the same factory so will have the same issue.

VDUK, A good point but due to the doppler effect loud exhausts sound loudest when they are going away from you.

Steven, It was the sound that initially made me think something wasn't right (and yes I am lucky to have acess to remote control video endoscope).

I just like things right and want to be sure the lack of back-pressure isn't storing up problems for the future - but maybe I should just let this go.
Hey, the weather is fine so I'm off to work on the bike now - ear plugs to the ready!!

Andy

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#6 PostAuthor: phil churchett » Thu May 08, 2008 4:37 pm

Andy, i think you have waayy too much spare time on your hands!
Four pipes rule, anything else is second best.

Hack
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#7 PostAuthor: Hack » Mon May 12, 2008 7:12 pm

Well, too much time on my hands or not I thought this would have provoked more discussion.

If my obsevations are correct then what I'm saying is that ALL the Z900 pattern 4-4 exhausts are made from incompatible parts. How can that be acceptable?

So, either
A - I'm totally wrong (quite possible).
B - The manufacturer doesn't understand the implications of mixing the two parts.
C - The manufacturer does understand but doesn't want the expense of re-designing a removable baffle to suit 1976 exhaust internals.

I would be interested to hear comments from the bigger suppliers (Z-power, Z1 - Enterprises etc..) as they must shift loads of these and would have contacts with the manufacturer. I'd also be interested to find out when the internals of the pattern exhaust changed from 73 to 76 design - maybe that has only happened recently.

I'm not (quite) ready to let this go yet - just want things right, how can there be anything wrong with that?

Andy
Last edited by Hack on Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mark-19

#8 PostAuthor: mark-19 » Mon May 12, 2008 7:26 pm

I'm with you on this one Andy,the z1 has always had a distinctive sound and i think it's part of the enjoyment of riding the bike,my z1b has 76 pipes and sounds great, dont know if they are the originals though.
I am not able to look inside them and i daren't try to remove them incase i damage something but i'm interested to know what you dig up.

Hang on in there!!

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#9 PostAuthor: Steve Cooke » Mon May 12, 2008 9:03 pm

I would be interested to know, it would be good if Jeff Saunders picked up on this as he or Dave Marsden are probably in a position to find out what,why and when, they are said to be the same other than the stamping (obviously not) it doesn't make much difference to me as I run on a Harris but i'm now curious.

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#10 PostAuthor: Davy Doherty » Mon May 12, 2008 9:18 pm

I have a 72 Z1 exhaust which i might open up to see what's what i have noticed the difference in the baffel the later being much longer.. Jeff looks in from time to time so hopefully he'll pick up on this.
Life's too short!

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#11 PostAuthor: DogsbolloxofZ1B » Mon May 12, 2008 9:37 pm

Hack,
I'm in agreement with your detailed observations, in fact I avoided buying pattern 4:4's for my Z1B opting for he genuine '76 versions for exactly this reason. I used to own a '73 Z1 with the peashooter baffles and that was noisey but all my recollections of the '75 pipes was of how quiet they were.

One other observation of the '76 pipe is the amount of water released, I assume this is due to transiton from hi/lo/hi pressure environments and dew point being reached. Not that I know much about this.

Mike

Hack
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#12 PostAuthor: Hack » Wed May 14, 2008 5:40 pm

Thanks for the comments folks.

I dropped an e-mail to Dave at Z-Power and he is going to contact the manufacturer, although he doesn't hold out much hope fore a response.

Davy, if you do have an old exhaust that could be opened up to get some decent photo's and exact measurements that would be good.

If anyone has a well rotted 76 pipe to chop up that would be even more interesting as I would like to know the dimensions, position and number of holes in the baffle pipe.

I'll probably end up making a new set of baffles at some point but with a house move looming this won't be in the near future.

I'll get there in the end.

Andy

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#13 PostAuthor: Steve Cooke » Wed May 14, 2008 6:49 pm

I have a rotten set of original 76 pipes I could cut open when I get a chance.

mark-19

#14 PostAuthor: mark-19 » Wed May 14, 2008 8:36 pm

Searched my garage for an endoscope andy but just couldn't lay my hands on one,but!! i did find an old bamboo stick that was cock on for sticking down the baffles and the blank end was 9 inches in,i know that is right where the first chamber wall is cos my pipes seem to have shrunk in diameter between each chamber and there's a lump where each divide is.
So it seems like that corresponds with your fig2, so are these pipes correct for my 1975 z1b?


Mark

Hack
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#15 PostAuthor: Hack » Thu May 15, 2008 5:44 pm

Mark,

I've just dug out the notes I made last year when I was looking into this and on the baffles supplied in my pattern pipes the blank is 155mm (6 1/8") down the pipe, i.e. midway down chamber B.

The total baffle length was 236mm (9 1/4") which seems to suggest that your baffles have the blank at the very end, which as you point out coincides with the first baffle plate, i.e. you appear to have the later design.

I'm pretty sure there was yet another silencer design in between the 73 & 76 models but I have no idea what the insides look like as the KHI genuine manual only shows these two.

Andy


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