KZ1000-M1 CSR

[Pigford]

Dark Skies, thats a detailed explaination matey
Must be all those glass fibre fumes
Good on you for getting stuck in..... at least you'll have the satisfaction of bonding with your bike

[Rich]

Evo-stick and then gaffer tape the edges to stop water creeping in.

[Steve Cooke]

Dark Skies I would use the glass part you have done as the mould and lay up the inside of that thus giving an exact size replica which would then have a smooth external edge to the lip, any slight imperfections can be made good with a polyester based filler such as P38, it looks like you have applied the glass by dabbing with a brush, if so it is not very effective for evacuating the air from the mat resulting in a weaker more absorbant finished article, so it may pay you to improvise a short bolt roller by drillng out a short length of threaded bar and sliding it over a small paint roller handle or something.
Sikoflex would be ideal for fixing the cover to the base although you will need loads of little clamps or similar to hold it to the lip while it goes off.
Good luck Steve

[RALPHARAMA]

It looks as though you've been using polyester resins. You might find that using epoxy resins are much easier to work with and much stronger. I can recommend West System Epoxy. It is a great product and Wessex resins who are the UK arm of the company are hugely helpful. Their target market is of course yotties, which is how I discovered their product, but I have used the stuff for all sorts. Their web site is hugely informative and they are always happy to send out info and are very helpful on the phone, http://www.wessex-resins.com/West_System/west_system_home.htm#

I tend to buy the stuff through Robbins Timber in Bristol. They are handy for me, but they do mail order as well I understand. Another great advantage of Epoxy is that it doesn't stink like polyester resins which make the workshop a no go area during the curing process and leaves an unpleasant odour for weeks - but I guess you know that already!

As Steven has said it would be best to use what you have made as a mould. Sikaflex is wonderful stuff, again a yottie product, but also used in the construction industry, but you need to be careful of the grade you buy. Chandlers take the piss on price ('bout a tenner a gunable tube), cos whilst they know yotties aren't all rich, they also know that most yotties will go without almost anything for the sake of their darling tub!

Steven, coming from Southhampton and knowing about Sikaflex are you a yottie?

[Dark Skies]

Hey everyone, thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

I did consider making a mould of the seat to lay up in the manner described but discounted it on the grounds that the most important surface to get as exact as possible was the eventual underneath of the seat pan. This is the area that needs to be the most accurate because it's the part that the seat's hinges, rubber supports, stay, and locking mechanism are affixed to. If everything is accurate underneath then the seat will sit and open correctly. It is also the only bit that might be viewed by others on occasion. Imperfections on the upper side are not so critical because the foam will sit on top of it and mould itself around the odd bump. By glassing top down the molded surface of the upperside of the pan will become the underneath of the seat - the closest I can get to reproducing the actual underneath of the seat.

If I used the current work as the mold then when I glassed into it I would lose the integrity of the underneath - subtituting it for a perfect upper which would be wasted on the adaptable surface of the foam cushion.

I had a pleasant surprise today regarding the lower 'lip' of the seat - the symmetry of which I was concerned about regarding presenting a decent external front. I placed the seat foam over the top and found that the 'skirted' edge of the foam amply covers the fibreglass lip and, due to the age of the foam, had a bit of slop in it by around three millimetres all round. This is great news because it means that the foam will mould itself over anyimperfections AND I can build out to meet this foam thereby making it thick enough to be up to the job.

I am using a polyester resin - this project was born on an impulse and so I bought what was easily available locally. I initially got a kit from the boat chandler down the road from me ... the fact that I only got the one demonstrates how pricey it was. I found out at the counter otherwise I'd have just did what I had to do once the kit ran out and bought a load from Halfords for a fraction of the cost.

If I'd had an inkling that this was the way i was going to go I'd have bought a skipload from a glass supplier - which is what I did when I built my race orientated kit car a few years back. It is way cheaper. And epoxy does smell a good deal less. Having said that ... I REALLY like the smell of fibreglass in the morning. It smells like ... progress.

You're right about Sixaflex too. Sika sponsored my kit car and gave me a crate of 221 and sundry primers and preppers back in the day. Brilliant stuff - a powerful adhesive AND sealant. I used it to bond my kit car's body to the chassis (as well as bolting I hasten to add). Bond fibreglass to metal with Sika and you'll break the glassed panel before you'll tear the rubberoid material. I use it for everything. It's especially good for repairs to split vinyl seat covers. Get a piece of vinyl material, wet the cloth side, stick it in the slit and pull up to the underside of the cut seat cover and clamp. A strong flexible repair ready to use next day. I digress. The local chandler flogs it for ?15 a tube. I live near a marina so I guess the shop owner figures he can get away with stocking it at that price. I think I've seen it for about ?7 on Ebay.

I do have a roller for getting the air out of the wetted glass - it's made out of a small wallpaper roller. Unfortunately, due to the many dips and dings in the seat panel its difficult to really get in there to good effect. I've got around this by using one of those coned wire brushes you put in a hand drill to de-rust metal. Currently I'm wetting the mat with the brush that came with the kit and then using the wire brush to tamp it down - it punctures any air bubbles and allows you to get that mat down good and tight.

The 'air bubbled' look in the picture I put up is due to the flash of my cheapo digital camera. In normal light it's an even snot green with no bubbles. For some additional strengh I intend to lay in some crosswork woven fibreglass left over from my kit car building days.

[Pigford]

As I work in the Construction Industry (Not laundry ), I get treated to lunch quite regularly by one of the Sika reps...
They also supply admixture for concrete I'll try to get a free sample, although its not guaranteed, coz the old rep has just left
Will let you know how i get on

[RALPHARAMA]

Many moons ago a friend who worked in plastics (also a yottie) put me onto Adflex, used in the construction industry, which was made by Sika, and seemed to be exactly the same as the stuff flogged in the chandlers for a tenner a tube, but was only a fiver a tube.

I don't use any fancy pants gear for stippling out lay ups. I but the five brushes for next to nothing packs in Bugger & Queer. I always use the ones with clear (ish) bristles, so if the sods do molt into a job they don't stand out like the proverbial bull dog's privates. There is no future in trying to remove epoxy resin from brushes so the cheaper the better. The Bugger & Queer brushes are cheaper and in my experience better than the pucker laminating brushes.

Dark Skies, if you like the smell of Polyester resins you are a clear candidate for rehab

[Steve Cooke]

Hello Ralph no i'm not a yottie although I live on the Hamble river i'm more into powered boats, i've had/built many boats over the years the most recent being a 30' Profish which can be seen in UK Kev's post in the back yard (search under boat) deep sea fishing is my bag. projects for this year - me and a mate should be starting a twin engined 40' catamaran from scratch and do my Yachtmasters.
The reason I know about Sika and glassfibre is I ran my own G.R.P. company for many years and still do quite a bit now, personally I prefer to use Polyester resins for most things, Epoxy resins are a great product but I wouldn't advise their use by novices as the potential harm is greater and compatability can cause problems as most boats etc. are done in Polyester.
Living here I could have a full time job repairing Yachts because when the sun or wind comes out or around Cowes week they all seem intent on colliding with each other that's why I like the engine it gives us a chance to evade.
Anyway Dark Skies sorry to digress, i'm glad you made some effort to roll the glass you can't beat a bit of improvisation, I would suggest you will need some woven rovings or suchlike for rigidity and/or introducing some ribbing to the top in both dimensions as like you say, anything on the top wil be lost in the foam, also it amazes me how many people do say 'I love that smell' ughhh try working in it every day.

[RALPHARAMA]

When I was looking for my current boat I took a Mirage 28 for a very brief test sail down the Hamble under power. There were craft of every size imaginable, going in every direction all at once. Collision regs went out the window, it was just a case of aiming for a gap. We might have mental tides in the Bristol Channel, and it is a bit soupy up the top, but I never ever want to join in the Hamble Scramble again!

Interested that you site compatibility as a problem with epoxy, I was always led to believe that epoxy was really good as it sticks to most other layup including polyester, I've certainly never had any issues myself. When I re-engined my boat (http://www.gibsea.org.uk/TA5-New_Engine.htm ) I used epoxy to bond in the new engine beds to the old polyester the boat was laminated from. Five plus years on it still hasn't shaken loose!

Had a look at your fishing boat - looks a very solid competent boat. Impressed that you did the layup yourself. Did you hire a mould? Always been a dream of mine to build a yacht, but I have neither the time, place to do it let alone the cash Had considered building steel hull as my welding skills are better honed than my laminating.

[Dark Skies]

The seat pan has now been layed up and is ready for trimming / shaping. After the first pass I used roving woven glass mat for strength.
I've sandblasted all the metal fittings/ hinges and dip coated them in paint. With a bit of luck I'll have some stainless screws glassed into place by tomorrow. Then it's just a matter of waiting on a replacement cover from the States to arrive.

By the way those grey patches in the picture are reflections of the window pane on the wet glass - not air bubbles as one might suppose.

It's boring but it's a part of my life.

[Dark Skies]

The pan has now been pulled off the mould. I'm very pleased with the way it turned out. I could use it immediately but, being a bit of a perfectionist, there are a few things I want to tidy up before recovering it.

Fibreglass can be a bit of a pain to get laid up in an even thickness, so I've been pleasantly surprised to find overall I'm within +1 / -1 mm.

How strong is it? Well, in one or two places the wax releasing agent might have been applied better and it was tough pulling it off the mould - had to give it a real yank. The new pan stayed firm without a hint of any plastic cracking noise. The metal pan bent though!

[ollie]

This is really impressive ,looks superb ,had alaugh when you said you bent the metal pan on removing !!!
keep them pics coming and i can't wait to see it covered
ollie

[Dark Skies]

Cheers. I have to say it's been easier than I thought it would be. That might just be the fumes talking though.

So here's the pan with all the fittings bolted on for a trial fit.



Pretty much cock on first go. It's awaiting a seat cover from the States. I'll be using sikaflex to hold the cover on - hence the keyed bare lip underneath the seat.

Thing is though ... with the seat down you can get an idea of how nice and swoopy the line could be. I'm wondering if maybe I should hack out some of the foam and have a thinner, more streamlined seat instead.

[RoyNorway]

Really nice
Its nice that something its easier then expected...

I think it will look better if you removed some foam, but it will be harder to sit on if you take longer trips on the bike...obviously
Im not sure if you will have problems with the seat cover to fit then, because they use to be very well adapted to fit with all the foam on.

But are you planning to use Sikaflex to fix the seat cover on, no stitch at all?
Where did you order the seat cover from?

[RALPHARAMA]

That looks great. My bike had previously been owned by a gurlie who had some of the foam removed from the seat and I can tell you that it ain't worth it for the looks. Anything over ten miles and my arse was proper tender! I bought a second seat and bolted it on. It is my intention to make some new foam for the old base and fit a standard seat cover so I have a dual seat in case the bride wants to come for a ride one day!