Kick starter won't move

[Skunkwurcx]

The bike is a '77 Z1000.

I first noticed this when I had the sprocket cover off. I had taken it off in order to fit a new cable, but decided that I would give it a clean up before hand, so I set it aside and went on to checking the valve clearance. I first tried the kicker, and it didn't want to budge - I didn't force the issue either. It moved before with less force than I was applying, so something is ascew right ? Then I went to turn the crank, it didn't want to budge either. It rotated freely before the sprocket cover was removed. Again, I didn't force the issue. I put the sprocket cover back on and the engine turned using a wrench on the crank, but the kicker still didn't want to budge. The thing is in neutral BTW.

Now that I have the bars back on with the clutch lever and cable all hooked up, the crank will turn, but the kicker still won't budge. Have I buggered something up here ? I'm not yet ready to fire her up, but I will be by the weekend perhaps and I really don't want to before this is resolved.

I appreciate any help on this,
Andrew

[RALPHARAMA]

Have you taken the kick start cover off at any point? I made a balls of fitting mine first time around after my build. I was shitting rivets cos potentially it could have been something I'd got wrong at the split crankcases point. As it turned out I hadn't engaged the big spring in the kicker shaft properly when I put it in. It's easy enough to take the cover off (four screws - and if they're not stainless cap heads replace them!). If you have filled with oil it might be prudent to tip the bike over a bit else you'll have an involuntary oilchange! Have you turned the engine backwards on the crank very far?

[Skunkwurcx]

Hi Ralph and thanks for the reply. It was while reading your post about your trbls that I remembered mine.

To answer, no, I haven't had the kickstarter off and my engine hasn't been apart. The only things that have been removed from it are the carbs, the sprocket cover to replace the clutch cable, and the points cover to replace the ignition. Turning the engine backwards has been kept to an absolute min and it was after the kick start issue turned up.

I did notice that after I had installed the sprocket cover and turned the crank a few times there was a right shitty noise coming from the left side which went away after a few turns.

Like you, I read through the manual, and there seems to be squat on this condition. It did only show up after the sprocket cover came off, as did the engine not being able to turn from turning the crank.

Heh, is there a "reset" button...j/k.

[chrisu]

as Ralph says you might want to check anyway. Here is a photo/words that describe. note the words - they are very important !!

Did it all work before ?





hope this helps.

[Skunkwurcx]

I'm feeling about as smart as a brick right now. I just came back from the shed - the kick lever turns now, with the clutch lever pulled IN !! Is this right ?.....I could swear on anything, that the last time I used it the bike had to be in neutral(which it is btw) and the clutch lever was OUT, I even seem to remember that it wouldn't turn if the clutch lever was pulled IN !! Ack....

I won't mind feeling stupid if the thing is working as it should now. Is it ? Owners manual doesn't say anything about the clutch lever when describing how to use the kickstart. It does say to unfold it from it's stored position though.....really ?

Andrew

[Pigford]

If you try to kickstart with the clutch IN, this disengages the drive to turn the crank So it'll never kick over with clutch lever in
Try it on main stand to make sure theres no resistance if it ain't out of gear (in neutral) properly

[Skunkwurcx]

If you try to kickstart with the clutch IN, this disengages the drive to turn the crank So it'll never kick over with clutch lever in
Try it on main stand to make sure theres no resistance if it ain't out of gear (in neutral) properly

That's what I thought.....clutch in disengages the crank, but like I said, it had been so long that I couldn't remember even that. Anyways, I went back out after reading your reply Pigford, put the thing in gear and then back out and lo and behold, the kicker now moves with the clutch out !!

Thanks guys, I feel stupid and happy all at the same time....what bizarre sensation !!!

Andrew

[Pigford]

[floydsz1]

Hi Andrew,
It still sounds a bit dodgy though.(DIDNT WANT TO BUDGE AT ALL) ,
like everone says the kickstart will move with the clutch lever pulled in or left out, it just wont turn the crank/pistons etc with the clutch lever pulled in so will be easyer to move .
You said at the start that it 'DIDNT WANT TO BUDGE AT ALL '. I can start the engine by hand using the kickstart so there is not a lot of force needed to move it (just a bit off practice to get it to start).
If i remember correctly, if the engine is in gear and you pull in the clutch lever and then use the kickstart lever it will turn the back wheel, but obviously not the crank.
Hope its not an intermittent fault, ie, something come loose or being dropped inside the engine and jamming something now and again.
Good luck with it though

[Skunkwurcx]

Hello Floyd, thanks for your post. It has me a little concerned too, but I am sure it has everything to do with the sprocket cover being off. The engine hasn't been apart for anything to have fallen inside, aside from the cam cover being off. It has been covered at all times aside from when I have been checking the valves. Prior to removing the cover each and everytime, I check to make sure there is nothing loose that could fall in once the temp cover has been removed. I don't even lean over the engine from one side to the other just for that reason.

I have rolled it over several times by hand since the intial click into and out of gear and all seams well, knock on wood. Hopefully it is just one of those fluke situations that nobody encounters as nobody has had the sprocket cover off while wanting to check valve clearance. I have a knack for getting things to do weird shit, as the guys at work are fully aware of . The kick start has worked flawlessly each and everytime I have ever used it, which isn't a considerable amount mind you but....

Thanks again,
Andrew

[floydsz1]

hi Andrew,
glad all is ok, though i still cant see any reason why having the sprocket cover off will make any difference to the kickstart locking up.
anyhow, if all is ok just enjoy riding the zed,
peter.

[Pigford]

With the spox cover off, the gear change would be iffy, coz the shaft would wobble, so getting neutral or positive engagement might have been hit & miss

Be positive, fingers crossed and it'll be OK

[floydsz1]

I understand about the gear lever but not the kickstart lever being solid. I seem to remember having a bike a few years ago that used to lock up when turning the engine over now and again, cant remember what caused it though. (my memories going a bit )

[RALPHARAMA]

I don't think you know yer own strength Floyd, either that or you've got fuck all compression! I, admittedly haven't tried starting my bike using the kick start with my arm, but judging by the way I need to shift my silthlike sixteen stone onto the fucka I can't imagine being able to do it by hand. Then again my old Yanmar single pot diesel in the boat had a starting handle. To me it was a sick joke. Even getting someone else to turn the decompressor into voice activation mode didn't work. I'd work me self into a lather only seconds away from cardiac arrest shout to let off the decompressor where the fucka would just lock up solid and hurt my wrist almost as much as the old pride. Trouble is that there's no bump starting a boat, and sailing onto a berth ain't easy. To obvious anser was to rewire the boat and fit a shiney new Volvo Penta triple - no starting handle to take the piss with!

[Skunkwurcx]

I didn't try and move the shift lever with the sprocket cover off, just the kick lever and also the crank. The crank would not turn, at least not with the same effort as it had before the sprocket cover was off, and I didn't force the issue either mind you. With the sprocket cover back on, the crank would turn with the same effort as before I ever took the sprocket cover off.

The kick lever wouldn't rotate until today when I gave it a try with the clutch lever pulled in. Then later after having shifted the gear change lever into first gear and back into neutral, the kick lever rotated without the clutch lever pulled in.

I am puzzled by this, especially as you guys are scratching your heads a bit too. This is all new and unknown to me, so I will always err on the side of caution and not force anything until I ask. It all seems fine now, but I'll keep an eye on it.

Heh, I may get to test the theory again anyway as I forgot to clean out the clutch release mechanism before I put it back together so I'll let you know if the same thing happens again.

Andrew