A Z900 challenge to the forum with a prize

[Phil50]

Cheers
The Valve timeing was done by "the dogs bollocks " So its correct. I red did the shims myself. All new shims all 2 thou in 4 Thou no go. Perfect.

I have found one small fault this week. The indicators do not flash. they never did flash well anyway.

I got an AVO and upon switching on the ignition the voltage across the coils drops from 12V to 10.4V. At the coil End not the battery which is constant 12V If I put a Halogen bulb in its place no Volt drop at all? This is odd.

I re checked the charging voltage and it is not correct in that it is the same at 1000 RPM as it is at 4.200 RPM 13V!!!!!
Removing the regulator or fitting another one makes NO difference. The Rectifier tested perfect. I was about to test the dynamo output voltage and current output when I was no longer able to start the bike due to choked plugs and tired leg kicking it over. So put battery on charge and will wait for rain to stop. The cold AVO test of the coils on a Digital meter indicated all three windings were 2.8 to 31. Ohms. Within Spec. So it is a weird fault indeed. Maybe it is a bad earth although Earth leakage meter tested ever metal bit around and all are earthed OK

I am going to SORN it on Nov 31 when the tax runs out. The plan is to stop wasting every ones time here as the Q and A time is over and I am putting in to a Garage in Hampshire to a specialist with a Dynomometer machine and a history of Zed building to just fix the f****r and call me when its done. I no longer have the time or inclanation to piss about week after week on stupid fault that defies logic. Let some one else do it and I will just have to cough up.
thanks to all helpers
regards
Phil

[Jon]

Sorry to hear about your problems mate. tbh tho you can get similarly impossible problems with any bike. Luck of the draw unfortunately. As everyone else says tho persevere. Yeah its a shit load of time/money, but if you flog it on you`ll never get that back. These bikes are getting rare, and you may never get another chance to own one, especially one thats obviously had a lot of money spent rebuilding the engine internals.

I went through similar problems with my Z Harris for many years. I had to keep walking away from the bike before I sold it, or beat it with a hammer . When you do finally (and you will) beat it, its the most satisfying feeling in the world believe me. Nothing can beat that feeling of the first good run out.

I actually had exactly the same problem with my harris on/off for years. Coil resistences, etc were fine, but would soot like crazy. I put it down to stupidly high compression, race spec cams, open pipe etc, and learned to live with replacing plugs every few weeks, and carrying a plug tool n sandpaper everywhere with me. NGK plugs are notorious tho for dying at the first sign of fouling up. Used to foul up like mad with no real logic or reason as to when it happened. Would happen every run, and then not for a few days, etc, etc. In the end I fitted Dynacoils n Taylor leads, even tho the original coils seemed fine resistence wise. Since then I havent had to pull the plugs in thousands of miles. Sorted a lot of problems for me. If you can get a loan of some to try out it may be the soloution.

Anyway best of luck mate and keep us posted.

[london calling]

Denso spark plugs everytime for me

[Phil50]

thanks Jon for your comments

I have no intention to complain about the help I have had so all must understand this.
I have a new plan in the new year.


However I have NGK Plugs in my old car and after 12000 miles they are still perfect. I used NGK plugs for thousands of miles in all of my Z900's over the years with never a single fault.

It is not a plug issue. Also an exhaust is a a series of four hollow tubes flowing into a large single tube with a bafffle that consists of a chunk of metal with various size holes drilled in it. There is very little to do between manufacturers other than personal preference in sound and perhaps a BHP or two.
Which is down to jetting anyway.
I used many exhausts before including the orginal Devil (pre Harris pipe) Yoshimura, and even a home made job cut from two manufacturers. Never a problem.

I have put this heap into storage now and am not spending any more money. It was a big mistake buying a motorbike that was thirty years old in the first place. I will be sellling the bits off a piece at a time in the new year, if I cannot fix the problem with one more try in march.

I have seen Kawasaki Zeds recently but they are not really original in that the number plate seems to be the only original bit left, and perhaps the crankshafs. If you take a an old bike and replace everything on it and rebore it and put al new pistons/rings repaint new shocks new paint/stove it replace all wiring/ casings carbs jets. Er WELL everything then of course it will work its all BRAND NEW! But it is no longer the orginal bike in anything other than name. This is called restoration in my book and I am not spending ?15 - ?25 thousand to do it. I do not have the income, thats for people who either have the money to burn or are just in to restoration. I was only looking to ride the old dream again and that is all.

I had some good suggestions from members and some actual on hands help which I will always be grateful for. however It was just more money down the drain. This bike was the biggest mistake I have ever made and yes I am whinging LOL. So would you with this much crap to put up with. I had the top man look and he couldn't fix it so what chance is there now?

Alas it was not meant to be. I may not get all the money back but at least i will get anough back to afford a ridable machine next summer, even if it ends up as a 400-4!
thanks again mate
Phil

[Garn 1]

So, Phil, what was the purpose of the subject heading. Perhaps, if you didn't offer a prize things may have worked out different.
Good luck and don't forget to check that crank one day. I think it has moved!
RegardZ.

[Pigford]

Sorry to hear your bad luck mate, but all the best, whatever you decide to do

[chrisNI]

I used NGK plugs for thousands of miles in all of my Z900's over the years with never a single fault.

Phil

So did a lot of us but times change - sorry you've had such a hard time with this but the engines themselves aren't really that complicated and they are fairly bulletproof. I spent about three months once trying to sort out my z1000 it was a blocked up fuel tap in the end, not ignition, not valve timing, not exhaust or jetting, partly plugs (as it killed a few sets).... But I don't agree you have to spend ?15000 and replace everything to get a bike that is capable of reliably running for long hauls. They do need a bit of work but you seem to have been particularly unlucky.

I'd be intrigued to know what the problem really is - I'd bet it's electrical (not that it has been only that all along, but you could have sorted out all sorts of other stuff that would have made it run like a bag of nails but not stopped it throughout this saga, while an underlying electric fault makes it look like you're going nowhere...) but if you're going to break it I guess we'll never know the answer. If you're still running B7ES it should be B8ES.

[debben1]

Success is normally found just after the point where most people give up

[Phil50]

I am intrigued about a crank moving Kawasaki JP said its impossible. I have had another garage look at the bike for an inspection. Although there was no charge other than a ?20 fee for testing the electrics they could find no reason for rich running? So the bike is now ben in three garages and one private expert and still it cannot be fixed. I am now auctioning off the bits on ebay a piece at a time. My verdict on classic bikes? Unprintable.
bye all

[chrisu]

I'm with some of Rich's checks.

Many of the Z's suffer from poor electrical systems.

Check the battery voltage with a fully charged battery and the ignition off - you should see a reading around 12.5 volts.

Then check the voltage at the coils - you should see around 11.5 volts, but often you'll see way less as the various connections and switches in the electrical system consume power.

There's a fairly simple relay fix to up the voltage at the coils - here's a link to one of the sites with this fix http://www.wgcarbs.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=26

did you ever try this ?

[Garn 1]

I am intrigued about a crank moving Kawasaki JP said its impossible

Why do we weld crankshafts? Ans: They have been known to move, admittedly under rare circumstances. such as over-revving or drag-racing. I would not agree that it impossible. The check they do for suspected movement in the crankshaft journals, is to align, at some point, all the four "little ends" with a long gound 17mm rod!

This prediction of your trouble was suggested as an extreme. However, since you think differently, try something basic like, checking the valve timing for being correct at 28 teeth, nevertheless. being one tooth advanced... and they still run. Even experts make errors!
RegardZ

[paul doran]

Garn I already suggested the valve timing and Phil said he had checked it and it was okay

[RALPHARAMA]

I feel sorry for the poor sod who buys the part causing the problem on flea-bay and then goes through the same pain and grief

Along with a huge number of people on here I also had grief from NGK plugs, even though they were fine years ago, and following advice on here changed to Densos and haven't had a problem since.

[floydsz1]

I agree that ngk plugs were the dogs bollox but that seems to be a few years ago. I used to run all my race bikes on them with no problems (going back over 20yrs) but over the last couple of years they seem to be giving problems, as someone said earlyer maybe they are now made in china or somewhere, using cheaper parts. Its a shame phil50 lives so far away from me but this is the sort off thing i enjoy working on and feel sure its fixable. I fully understand how he feels though.

[davejames]

I'm not sure that changing the plugs to Denso's would have cured the fault, but I think that the plugs would not have been fouled on every other attempt to cure it like it was with NGK's fitted.

I'm sure someone could have found the problem............shame