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Cam chain rattle
Moderators: KeithZ1R, chrisu, paul doran, Taffus
Cam chain rattle
Got quite a bit of cam chain noise on my z1000, I have checked the manual but can't find much on the tensioner, is it automatic on the J engines? Noise is definitely top end, I did the screwdriver to different parts of the engine test. Before I do much else I will get the carbs balanced just in case that is a contributing factor. How much noise is too much in terms of causing harm to the engine? I know most of them rattle particularly when cold. As it is I'm reluctant to run it. Any help welcome, thanks.
if it has the standard tensioner chuck it in the bin & fit one of these
http://www.pitstopperformance.com/kawas ... 1100-p-137
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kawasaki-Z650 ... 1c3aa29283
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KAWASAKI-GPZ1 ... 23372e49eb
http://www.pitstopperformance.com/kawas ... 1100-p-137
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kawasaki-Z650 ... 1c3aa29283
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KAWASAKI-GPZ1 ... 23372e49eb
weaver wrote:check your headers are tight,if loose can sound very much like cam chain rattle
Cheers weaver, checked and re-checked. Had a blowing header before and it gets louder with revs but this is just at idle. This is more of an internal noise. Top end was rebuilt so shouldn't be valves either. Hoping a carb balance will help but don't have gauges so will take it to the local garage hopefully this weekend.
If the carbs are even a little out then the clutch will bang like a barn door.
You can feel it through the bars unlike the other stuff.
If it takes a minute to warm up on choke and does a little pop and bang then that is spot on mixture for CV's.
Holding onto revs will possibly be air leak and usual place is carb boot to head. They need glueing on and leaving overnight.
The vacuum takeoff blanking bungs also split with the same effect.
A little too weak on the mixture will also cause it.
Same effect as you get when you forgot to turn the petrol tap on and rode off!!
Check the engine earth at the rear right hand side of the crank cases.
It will be frosted up and as i discovered yesterday to my cost; a poor earth gives rise to poor idle by virtue of intermittent sparks.
Top end; regular / rhythmic ticking noise can be valve clearance too big ( non- seating bent valve, pocketed valve with lip on contact area, broken valve spring, dislodged stem seal or cap cap bolts loose or broken.......
too small; valve to piston contact (bent valve), gas escape from valves leading to sypmtoms rather than noise for the most part.
May hold onto its revs here but shouldnt get the noises you have been experiencing.
Cam chain and guide blades do wear and the only reason not to change the auto tensioner for a manual one is that there is a measure of how worn, by the length of the protruding peg on the cross slide.
5.5mm from memory protruding from the auto tensioner body but you will need the manual to interpret what that means.
Different head and base gaskets, different barrells and level of skimming all have an impact on that as a reliable means of determining what is at fault.
There is also a small rubber damper block at the base of the inlet side tensioner blade which compresses badly over time.
It has a couple of alloy parts associated with it that run in the crankcase mouth.
If the block is worn it will allow the other bits to make themselves known.
The cam chain itself does not really rattle in my experience unless it is really loose /badly worn.
If it is that bad they can saw through stuff like the inside of the chain tunnel in the barrells!!
Its more of a hissing sound. (maybe i am a little more deaf than i was)
As Steve says give it a little wake up as the cross slide will always jam in the part open position.
AL
You can feel it through the bars unlike the other stuff.
If it takes a minute to warm up on choke and does a little pop and bang then that is spot on mixture for CV's.
Holding onto revs will possibly be air leak and usual place is carb boot to head. They need glueing on and leaving overnight.
The vacuum takeoff blanking bungs also split with the same effect.
A little too weak on the mixture will also cause it.
Same effect as you get when you forgot to turn the petrol tap on and rode off!!
Check the engine earth at the rear right hand side of the crank cases.
It will be frosted up and as i discovered yesterday to my cost; a poor earth gives rise to poor idle by virtue of intermittent sparks.
Top end; regular / rhythmic ticking noise can be valve clearance too big ( non- seating bent valve, pocketed valve with lip on contact area, broken valve spring, dislodged stem seal or cap cap bolts loose or broken.......
too small; valve to piston contact (bent valve), gas escape from valves leading to sypmtoms rather than noise for the most part.
May hold onto its revs here but shouldnt get the noises you have been experiencing.
Cam chain and guide blades do wear and the only reason not to change the auto tensioner for a manual one is that there is a measure of how worn, by the length of the protruding peg on the cross slide.
5.5mm from memory protruding from the auto tensioner body but you will need the manual to interpret what that means.
Different head and base gaskets, different barrells and level of skimming all have an impact on that as a reliable means of determining what is at fault.
There is also a small rubber damper block at the base of the inlet side tensioner blade which compresses badly over time.
It has a couple of alloy parts associated with it that run in the crankcase mouth.
If the block is worn it will allow the other bits to make themselves known.
The cam chain itself does not really rattle in my experience unless it is really loose /badly worn.
If it is that bad they can saw through stuff like the inside of the chain tunnel in the barrells!!
Its more of a hissing sound. (maybe i am a little more deaf than i was)
As Steve says give it a little wake up as the cross slide will always jam in the part open position.
AL
1981 J1
On a slightly different tack to others.... Just the other day I guy came around to my place and asked me to diagnose a cam chain noise. I said we will probably have to pull her down, I expected the cam & jockey sprockets to have separated from their rubber mountings.
He went away and came back a couple of days later. He said the noise was from his balance weights, for his adv mech, under his points cover. He said they were as "dry as a bone". Lubed them up and was happy!
I had never heard of that before! Worth a look! Completely fooled me.
RegardZ.
He went away and came back a couple of days later. He said the noise was from his balance weights, for his adv mech, under his points cover. He said they were as "dry as a bone". Lubed them up and was happy!
I had never heard of that before! Worth a look! Completely fooled me.
RegardZ.
Garn (Sydney) Z1, Z1A, Z1B and Z900-A4
I will try the fix it with a hammer method to start with and see if that helps. Maybe it's not the carbs then Al from what you describe.
It takes about a minute before the choke can be put to halfway and then probably less than a minute and she's warm. I wonder if the rattle is putting a resistance on the engine which is why it needs to be revved a bit so it doesn't die? After a couple of miles up the road and back the bike will tick over fine at 1000rpm and the noise has reduced somewhat but is still there. It doesn't get louder with revs, only noticeable at tick over.
It pulls well and has no flat spots either. I have a manual adjuster on order, probably a worthwhile upgrade regardless..
And thanks for the wealth of info Al, much appreciated.
It takes about a minute before the choke can be put to halfway and then probably less than a minute and she's warm. I wonder if the rattle is putting a resistance on the engine which is why it needs to be revved a bit so it doesn't die? After a couple of miles up the road and back the bike will tick over fine at 1000rpm and the noise has reduced somewhat but is still there. It doesn't get louder with revs, only noticeable at tick over.
It pulls well and has no flat spots either. I have a manual adjuster on order, probably a worthwhile upgrade regardless..
And thanks for the wealth of info Al, much appreciated.
Mine has an horriffic clatter occasionally if the oil has syphoned back from the oil cooler.
Dont think you have an oil cooler from the project photos' but wonder if you might have an oil supply / pressure problem.
It lasts for between a half and maybe two seconds!!!
I see you have the emissions control cam cover. Has it still got the 'valve spring plates' in it and is it still 'live' or vacuum pipes blanked off?
AL
Dont think you have an oil cooler from the project photos' but wonder if you might have an oil supply / pressure problem.
It lasts for between a half and maybe two seconds!!!
I see you have the emissions control cam cover. Has it still got the 'valve spring plates' in it and is it still 'live' or vacuum pipes blanked off?
AL
1981 J1
Looking at the owners manual for tensioner info I realised that the tensioner on my bike is on the wrong way round. It states the tensioner cap should be on the left of the engine.
I'm going to remove it, clean it and re-install. If it doesn't improve things I have a manual one to fit.
Do I need to set the crankshaft so 1/4 are TDC for removal and installation of either tensioner?
I'm going to remove it, clean it and re-install. If it doesn't improve things I have a manual one to fit.
Do I need to set the crankshaft so 1/4 are TDC for removal and installation of either tensioner?
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