Can anyone advise:
What typical pattern of wear would be expected on the bucket side of a valve shim?
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Valve Shim Wear.
Moderators: KeithZ1R, chrisu, paul doran, Taffus
Njwmct, "pattern of wear" are you talking about a pattern on the side of the buckets .... "wear marks" or are you asking if they exhibit detrimental wear over a period?
In general, I have found the Z1 series bucket to be extremely accurate and last indefinitely, without the presents any corrosive elements.
I have never found any ovality. Also, the dimension from the top (where the shim resides) to the little tit on the inside, is always right on dimension, which makes interchangeability easy. I used to think I could possibly change the shim size by swapping the buckets around.
Sometimes, I have noticed a slight scoring on the sides of the bucket bore in the head, caused from a valve lifter. Once this score is removed the bucket will slide smoothly again.
RegardZ.
In general, I have found the Z1 series bucket to be extremely accurate and last indefinitely, without the presents any corrosive elements.
I have never found any ovality. Also, the dimension from the top (where the shim resides) to the little tit on the inside, is always right on dimension, which makes interchangeability easy. I used to think I could possibly change the shim size by swapping the buckets around.
Sometimes, I have noticed a slight scoring on the sides of the bucket bore in the head, caused from a valve lifter. Once this score is removed the bucket will slide smoothly again.
RegardZ.
Garn (Sydney) Z1, Z1A, Z1B and Z900-A4
Garn 1 wrote:Njwmct, "pattern of wear" are you talking about a pattern on the side of the buckets .... "wear marks" or are you asking if they exhibit detrimental wear over a period?
In general, I have found the Z1 series bucket to be extremely accurate and last indefinitely, without the presents any corrosive elements.
I have never found any ovality. Also, the dimension from the top (where the shim resides) to the little tit on the inside, is always right on dimension, which makes interchangeability easy. I used to think I could possibly change the shim size by swapping the buckets around.
Sometimes, I have noticed a slight scoring on the sides of the bucket bore in the head, caused from a valve lifter. Once this score is removed the bucket will slide smoothly again.
RegardZ.
I'm talking about the wear pattern on the actual shims 'flat faces' & not the actual buckets.
zed1015 wrote:None, but chances are that they have been fitted the other way up at some point which will explain any wear marks.
Pic's would be helpfull.
The shims have never been fitted the wrong way up - I know this to be 100% correct.
You can see wear on both sides of the shims & the wear looks more uneven on the side of the shim that contacts the bucket.
Wear is unusual on the bucket side apart from light polishing unless they are a loose fit in the bucket.
Usually they are a snug fit and the whole bucket shim assembly rotates in use.
How can you be sure they have never been fitted the other way up.
Have you owned it from new and done all your own servicing.
Shops rarely use brand new shims when redoing the clearances and it doesn't really matter which way they go up once the size etching has worn off.
Usually they are a snug fit and the whole bucket shim assembly rotates in use.
How can you be sure they have never been fitted the other way up.
Have you owned it from new and done all your own servicing.
Shops rarely use brand new shims when redoing the clearances and it doesn't really matter which way they go up once the size etching has worn off.
zed1015 wrote:Wear is unusual on the bucket side apart from light polishing unless they are a loose fit in the bucket.
Usually they are a snug fit and the whole bucket shim assembly rotates in use.
How can you be sure they have never been fitted the other way up.
Have you owned it from new and done all your own servicing.
Shops rarely use brand new shims when redoing the clearances and it doesn't really matter which way they go up once the size etching has worn off.
I'm the only one that's ever had the camcover off - since it was born in 1979!!!
I know you're meant to fit the shims with the writing downwards , towards the bucket. Because this is to prevent the numbers getting rubbed off, it then implies there is less or no wear/scuffing to that side compared to the top (cam lobe) face
UNLESS the bucket can't rotate - then the shim will be forced to rotate in the non-rotating bucket when the cam lobe hits it at a miniscule angle each time (machining tolerances mean the lobe face won't always be parallel to the shim face )
UNLESS the bucket can't rotate - then the shim will be forced to rotate in the non-rotating bucket when the cam lobe hits it at a miniscule angle each time (machining tolerances mean the lobe face won't always be parallel to the shim face )
gray
Big Fluff wrote:Additionally...
Is the reason you're asking because you have a problem with 'out of spec' clearences.?
If not, simply bolt the cam cover down and stop bloody worrying
Clearances are all with the specified range - just exploring lots of avenues in trying to get to the bottom of what appears to be a top end clanging noise from cold at idle.
njwmct wrote:Big Fluff wrote:Additionally...
Is the reason you're asking because you have a problem with 'out of spec' clearences.?
If not, simply bolt the cam cover down and stop bloody worrying
Clearances are all with the specified range - just exploring lots of avenues in trying to get to the bottom of what appears to be a top end clanging noise from cold at idle.
Ahh... oil to thick
Kawasaki H2C 750, ZRX1100R, H**** VF1000RG Rothmans, H**** VF500F2F, Suzuki GSXR750F Slabbie
Z1parR wrote:I've seen wear marks on shims that resemble a ' catherine wheel ' type of pattern on them which would indicate the shim or bucket turning .
Usually see those on the bucket as they are the the result of the initial machining process left by the milling cutter .
Never seen it transfered to the shim though.
mjwmct. Really need some pic's of the wear to better suggest a likely cause.
Well, since this could be a source of top-end noise, I thought I would examine a stack load of shims I have.... Note that, I'm missing a lot in the 220 to 240 range.
I found, out of a sample of approx 150 shims, 50 % were hardly marked, 49% were marked with concentric circles, indicating rotation, a remaining 1% had indication of a mark off centre where cam had constantly worn on the face.
It does look as so the shim or bucket are supposed to rotate, although I did not see, or have not seen, any indication, on the bucket, that the bucket is suposed to rotate!
Unlike Gray, I don't worry about the direction I place the shim, however, I prefer to see the size when or before measuring, mainly to get an idea of the shim size without removal.... Sometimes it's in a position to view!
Back to Njwmct's problem....I wonder if, at the first service early in the life of the Z1000, when shims could have been checked, at say first 1000miles, the earlier convex shims were used/fitted, unbeknown to the owner and possibly the mechancs?
The photo below shows some of the concentric circles the bottom three shows straight off-centre marks from the cam. Gee, that photo caused some effort!
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/garn/me ... sort=3&o=2
RegardZ
I found, out of a sample of approx 150 shims, 50 % were hardly marked, 49% were marked with concentric circles, indicating rotation, a remaining 1% had indication of a mark off centre where cam had constantly worn on the face.
It does look as so the shim or bucket are supposed to rotate, although I did not see, or have not seen, any indication, on the bucket, that the bucket is suposed to rotate!
Unlike Gray, I don't worry about the direction I place the shim, however, I prefer to see the size when or before measuring, mainly to get an idea of the shim size without removal.... Sometimes it's in a position to view!
Back to Njwmct's problem....I wonder if, at the first service early in the life of the Z1000, when shims could have been checked, at say first 1000miles, the earlier convex shims were used/fitted, unbeknown to the owner and possibly the mechancs?
The photo below shows some of the concentric circles the bottom three shows straight off-centre marks from the cam. Gee, that photo caused some effort!
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/garn/me ... sort=3&o=2
RegardZ
Garn (Sydney) Z1, Z1A, Z1B and Z900-A4
Big Fluff wrote:njwmct wrote:Big Fluff wrote:Additionally...
Is the reason you're asking because you have a problem with 'out of spec' clearences.?
If not, simply bolt the cam cover down and stop bloody worrying
Clearances are all with the specified range - just exploring lots of avenues in trying to get to the bottom of what appears to be a top end clanging noise from cold at idle.
Ahh... oil to thick
Using 10/40 Castrol Semi-Synthetic so it shouldn't be too thick.
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