valve timing[now with TDC pictures]

[RAYZ1]

yes fitted

firstly Im no mechanic so this is my own experience

from setting the cam timing on various bikes , inc my z1b and gs750, you set it up without the idler wheel tensionors, with the arrows in the right position, tdc mark, number of pins counted etc - and then when apply full tension by way of the idler gear and the rear tensioner after the cams are biolted down - the arrows and tdc generally dont line up exactly again - and that is even with a new camchain, ther is quite a lot of slack and lash in the drive train as a lot of tension is applied.

one thing to make sure is when setting up the front cam arrow marks with the tdc, make sure the cam chain down the front of the camchain tunnel is taught

what you have experinced is probably what the majority of z1s or twin cam motors have after full assy, just remove the idler and tensioner , line up the arrows and tdc marks, re- count the link pins two or three times! and really you cant go wrong

When I did my 1st timing job on the z1b I stupidly set the timing to the f1/4 advamce mark instead of tdc, it ran ok but a bit flat, when I realised that I had made a mistake, I reset it and it was much crisper and sharper

[zman]

Dont know any history of the engine.ive just refurbished the head and cant say how it was set before.
with the cams set correct i have a choice of advanced as picture or twice as much retarded.
added pictures of cams.
Thanks for all your replies

[RAYZ1]

If its all set up correct before you fit the idler wheel then Im sure its all ok, Im sure that the difference and shift due to tension in the relative positions of the tdc mark and arrow are part of the design. the important thing is to set the chain correct with the arrow and tdc before any tension

[z1bman]

when set correctly the cutaway in the end of the camshafts should be half above + half bellow the cylinder head surface

[Big Fluff]

We still haven't see a pic of the cam marks with the crank set at TDC

I personally would use a 'dead stop' and degree disc to find true TDC, then have another look, just to make sure that the actual markings on the advancer are correct. These have been known to be out.!

Again, to offer a little more input, it would be better to post a pic with the advancer aligned at TDC, rather that the cam marks aligned with the head.

Will.

[CAT3]

Looks good enough to me

Nice mix of bolts/allen screw

[zman]

Under stand what you all have all said.Thanks
I havent put pictures with it at tdc as its not possible to get cams and tdc lined up.
So i have to decide which is best a bit advanced or a bit retarded[bike not me ]
Then i will post updated pics of final result.
Thanks for being patient

[kev edwards]

I see you have a bit of an assortment of bolts on the top end, i can only assume there were some stripped threads, i hope you have all the locating dowels in place if not there is a possiblity the cam caps may move also the cover may not go down far enough to seal if the bolt heads are to high.

[zed1015]

A close up clear photo of the exhaust cam sprocket taken level across the head when the TDC marks are aligned will be better than a thousand words.
The position of the camshaft mark in relation to the head surface will reveal all.
Ignore the inlet cam coz as long as its mark is 28 teeth along there is nothing you can do to alter that.
The position of the exhaust cam governs all.

[zman]

As you can see the mark is harlf a link below head seat at TDC:?:

[nealblath]

I've got exactly the same problem

just done my cam timing and with pistons at TDC and ex cam mark level with top of head, inlet cam mark is about half a tooth high in relation to top of head

[zed1015]

I've got exactly the same problem

just done my cam timing and with pistons at TDC and ex cam mark level with top of head, inlet cam mark is about half a tooth high in relation to top of head

That is normal.
As long as the pin count from the exhaust cam is correct everything is ok.