I pop in an old regular NGK in that jug and fire it up. Idles fine, no smoke, but to be fair I did not ride on it, just idled a bit. I had this same problem on that cylinder before, and at that time I was keeping the valve clearances between 2 and 4 thousanths. #4 was wide so I put it to the old clearance and the issue was resolved. I guess it could be a number of things, what comes to mind?Hello Guest User,
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Sooty Plug on #4
Moderators: KeithZ1R, chrisu, paul doran, Taffus
Sooty Plug on #4
So, I adjust the valves on the Z1A, they are now at 6,6,6,and 7 on the exhaust, 5,5,5,and 6 on the intake. I have brand new Iridium NGK plugs. The valves were way off prior to the shim job by the way. I go for a ride today, WOW, like a new bike. Very lively and responsive, great roll on acceleration and so forth. I am happy, the sun is bright, bugs are sacrificing themselves upon my visage with regularity. Life is good. Then...it gets a bit sluggish with occasional bursts of the previously mentioned liveliness. Then the bursts are gone, and while the bike is running the highway OK, it is sluggish and does not hold an idle well. After I got home I set the idle a bit high to keep it going and noticed smoke. at first I thought oil, bit it did not have that burnt oil smell, more of an over rich smell. I pulled the plugs and found 1, 2, and 3 to be fine. #4 was black. More of a flat black, not glossy. I pop in an old regular NGK in that jug and fire it up. Idles fine, no smoke, but to be fair I did not ride on it, just idled a bit. I had this same problem on that cylinder before, and at that time I was keeping the valve clearances between 2 and 4 thousanths. #4 was wide so I put it to the old clearance and the issue was resolved. I guess it could be a number of things, what comes to mind?
I pop in an old regular NGK in that jug and fire it up. Idles fine, no smoke, but to be fair I did not ride on it, just idled a bit. I had this same problem on that cylinder before, and at that time I was keeping the valve clearances between 2 and 4 thousanths. #4 was wide so I put it to the old clearance and the issue was resolved. I guess it could be a number of things, what comes to mind?
See my post on this for extra info still got one sooty plug no matter what i try!!! Will watch this post with interest Cheers Paulj..
PAULJAC47,,,,,"She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid."
-Han Solo
You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter
Salad is what real food eats.
Anon
PUM 673
-Han Solo
You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter
Salad is what real food eats.
Anon
PUM 673
Garn 1 I agree with you on that one, probably the most undetectable problem you can have. I duck tapped a volt metre to the clocks to check the reg/rec because of the probs I had with the coils burning out. Looked a bit daft but useful never-the-less. As it turn out I replaced a duff coil with another duff coil but the metre gave me peace of mind before I put a 100 quids worth of Dyna coil on.
Lost in the desert somewhere
OK, coils changed from side to side. All connections checked and found to be good. (I have not yet checked voltage to coils by the way) Went for a ride to check things out with brand spanking new spark plugs. Went on my way to the H#$%a shop to have my bike inspected since I need to get my tags renewed anyway. No smoke from the pipe, started and idled great, everything back to normal and running fine. Off I go down the highway and about a mile or so prior to the exit I think to myself, boy the sun is hot today (98* witth a heat index of 103*), I can feel it on my leg. Very hot sun indeed, HOT SUN, HOT HOT, What The F^%$!! I look down and oil is pouring out of the motor and all over my left leg and the bike. I had blown out a cam end plug. I ran it slow to a service station, called the missus, and had her come get me. Went back with the toolbox after I dug out the old cam end plugs from the garage trash can. Went back, worked on the hot motor, installed an old plug, wiped down the oil and lo and behold, found the blown out new plug wedged by the #1 spark plug. Leveled out the oil, and ran it home just fine. It will take a longer ride to see what I need to see.
OK, sooty #4 plug did not follow the coil. The plug is sooty and fouled again. The other plugs look good in comparison but do look a bit rich. My guess is a carb rebuild? Any information from the experts? I have run the same settings for years so there has not been a change of mains or anything recently. I would be very curious as to what mains and settings you guys use on a stock Z1 motor with filter pods and a 4 into 1 exhaust. I have no memory at this point as to what my mains are. I set them up years ago. Am I correct that worn seats,valves etc. will cause excessive richness?
Edit: It occurs to me I should also check the voltage going to the coils, will do so after work tommorrow.
Edit: It occurs to me I should also check the voltage going to the coils, will do so after work tommorrow.
Howdy doody JH, have you got any more spec on this issue;
What are the compression pressures?
Any noticeable difference between any cylinder and of course anything un-natural about #4?
Have you had the carbs or exhaust off recently?
Any signs or carbon in the inlet tract or excessive build up in the exhaust port?
Youv'e just had the cam cover off;
any signs of burning or carbonisation around number 4 bucket well?
Notice anything different between inlet side of head and exhaust side of head with respect to colour or appearance in the under cover area?
The fact that you've had a fluctuating valve clearances on #4 suggests a potential problem in that area.
Any hint that it may have a valve out there or burning of the seat or build up on the seat preventing it sealing correctly?
Are you using the air box or pods?
If pods; are they identically clean and tight?
Have you tried to swap leads between #1 and #4 without altering anything else?
Any significant difference between lead lengths between #1 and #4?
Are the leads the same length #'s 1 and 4 and coiled up on top of the cam cover in a loop?
What plug gaps are you using?
Is the gap between the dyna rotor and the two pickups identical and within tolerance categorically. Note; you generally cant measure this accurately with feeler gauges!!!
Any hint of the pickups overheating?
They should have white heat transfer / electrical conductivity paste between them and the baseplates. If overheating here the paste becomes mobile!
What plug leads and caps are you using?
If using screw on caps are they suppressor type?
Have you measured the resistance of the caps and compared it for the standard spec printed on the caps and more importantly between the four for consistency.
What octane fuel do you have there?
If running on low octane fuel you may consider backing the timing off by two degrees.
This will make the engine run slightly hotter and lean the mixture out a little across the range.
*It should burn a little cleaner too but i would suggest that you only do this with and engine that is proven to be correct in all other areas.
Have you experimented with a hotter set of plugs. *See cautionary note above!
Similarly; if all details of the engine are within spec and its still not right; drop the dynamic fuel level in the carbs by a mm.
Very difficult to do in practice but when setting the fuel service level and aiming for 3mm below gasket level, (for example), rather aim for 4mm below gasket level.
Most unlikely to hit it dead on but this is indicative rather than actual cos you'd have to be pretty anal to want to get it spot on and keep it that way due to normal fluctuations beyond you're control.
Any hint that this happens more when the fuel tank is fuller or more inclined to be empty?
A fuller tank has greater static head pressure and may (i say may) incline to flood carbs that have existing marginal float needle seats.
Similarly; a less full tank when left in the sun or ridden in extremes of temperature, having a less than satisfactory fuel breather may develop excess vapour pressure in the 'head space' and effectively force feed fuel past a marginal float needle and seat.
The cam end plug popping out may have been caused by several things;
Obvious; knackered plug.
Less obvious; crankcase ignition.
Same; excess crankcase compression.
If #4 rings are letting by; or #4 vales are partially open/unseated or #4 fuel level is too high is there a suggestion of fuel in the oil?
See points above!
Couple of things to think about.
AL
What are the compression pressures?
Any noticeable difference between any cylinder and of course anything un-natural about #4?
Have you had the carbs or exhaust off recently?
Any signs or carbon in the inlet tract or excessive build up in the exhaust port?
Youv'e just had the cam cover off;
any signs of burning or carbonisation around number 4 bucket well?
Notice anything different between inlet side of head and exhaust side of head with respect to colour or appearance in the under cover area?
The fact that you've had a fluctuating valve clearances on #4 suggests a potential problem in that area.
Any hint that it may have a valve out there or burning of the seat or build up on the seat preventing it sealing correctly?
Are you using the air box or pods?
If pods; are they identically clean and tight?
Have you tried to swap leads between #1 and #4 without altering anything else?
Any significant difference between lead lengths between #1 and #4?
Are the leads the same length #'s 1 and 4 and coiled up on top of the cam cover in a loop?
What plug gaps are you using?
Is the gap between the dyna rotor and the two pickups identical and within tolerance categorically. Note; you generally cant measure this accurately with feeler gauges!!!
Any hint of the pickups overheating?
They should have white heat transfer / electrical conductivity paste between them and the baseplates. If overheating here the paste becomes mobile!
What plug leads and caps are you using?
If using screw on caps are they suppressor type?
Have you measured the resistance of the caps and compared it for the standard spec printed on the caps and more importantly between the four for consistency.
What octane fuel do you have there?
If running on low octane fuel you may consider backing the timing off by two degrees.
This will make the engine run slightly hotter and lean the mixture out a little across the range.
*It should burn a little cleaner too but i would suggest that you only do this with and engine that is proven to be correct in all other areas.
Have you experimented with a hotter set of plugs. *See cautionary note above!
Similarly; if all details of the engine are within spec and its still not right; drop the dynamic fuel level in the carbs by a mm.
Very difficult to do in practice but when setting the fuel service level and aiming for 3mm below gasket level, (for example), rather aim for 4mm below gasket level.
Most unlikely to hit it dead on but this is indicative rather than actual cos you'd have to be pretty anal to want to get it spot on and keep it that way due to normal fluctuations beyond you're control.
Any hint that this happens more when the fuel tank is fuller or more inclined to be empty?
A fuller tank has greater static head pressure and may (i say may) incline to flood carbs that have existing marginal float needle seats.
Similarly; a less full tank when left in the sun or ridden in extremes of temperature, having a less than satisfactory fuel breather may develop excess vapour pressure in the 'head space' and effectively force feed fuel past a marginal float needle and seat.
The cam end plug popping out may have been caused by several things;
Obvious; knackered plug.
Less obvious; crankcase ignition.
Same; excess crankcase compression.
If #4 rings are letting by; or #4 vales are partially open/unseated or #4 fuel level is too high is there a suggestion of fuel in the oil?
See points above!
Couple of things to think about.
AL
Possible relevant recent post
http://z1ownersclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10213
Have you checked the specs for the total ignition system against the above?
AL
http://z1ownersclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10213
Have you checked the specs for the total ignition system against the above?
AL
Update, although no joy as of yet. I can't find my voltage meter so that will have to wait till tommorrow at best. I did order however, a solid state replacement for the voltage regulator and rectifier from Z1 Enterprises and have yet to install it. Figured now is as good a time as any considering that it may well make a difference and couldn't hurt anything. The regulator came off, finally 
The rectifier came out quite a bit easier and I found that one of the prongs (not one of the 2 bullet connections) was black and crusty. Looks all the world like it is burnt up. This can't be a healthy situation for things in general. I have to get longer mounting bolts for the new unit. Will have it on tommorrow and fire things up.
Zorded's queationa as best I can: I have not yet tested compression levels. I have had the carbs and the exhaust off recently, nothing appeared to be amiss. I noticed nothing unusual when I had the cam cover off, no weird colors or anything. I have no idea what is meant by fluctuating valve clearances on #4, It was out of spec and now is in spec. #1,2,and 3 were off more than #4. I have had no suspicions about #4 having a burnt valve or a valve not closing properly. I did have some clatter fr
The rectifier came out quite a bit easier and I found that one of the prongs (not one of the 2 bullet connections) was black and crusty. Looks all the world like it is burnt up. This can't be a healthy situation for things in general. I have to get longer mounting bolts for the new unit. Will have it on tommorrow and fire things up.
Zorded's queationa as best I can: I have not yet tested compression levels. I have had the carbs and the exhaust off recently, nothing appeared to be amiss. I noticed nothing unusual when I had the cam cover off, no weird colors or anything. I have no idea what is meant by fluctuating valve clearances on #4, It was out of spec and now is in spec. #1,2,and 3 were off more than #4. I have had no suspicions about #4 having a burnt valve or a valve not closing properly. I did have some clatter fr
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