Z1100 1981 A1 shaftie advice please

[corpy]

I am getting near to replacing the barrel and head after glaze-busting, fitting new standard Kaw rings and valve seals etc. Had to economise so have a pattern all-engine gasket set.
I haven't done this sort of job for decades, and then only on a few British singles and twins, so I searched this forum for advice on Hylomar and anything else that would help me. Apparently there is a mistake in the Kaw sevice manual, repeated by Clymer.
So, are these torque figures ok? cyl head cover bolts 24 off 90inch/lbs., camshaft bearing caps 12ft/lbs., cyl head nuts 12 off 29ft/lbs., cam chain tensioner cap 20ft/lbs., valve gaps (Clymer) 3-7 thou, or Kaw 2-6 thou? (0.08-0.18mm)
To save my knees and back I was hoping to shim the valves (shims inside) with the head on the bench, but I read here that the gaps will change when the head is bolted down - do they change by much?
Being a whole-engine set I have a few o-rings to spare - what are the oblong ones for?
O-rings: none on crankcase mouth, one for the cam chain tunnel plus one at each corner head bolt.
Is it vital to replace 4 flat copper-faced washers or will Hylomar do its stuff?
Many thanks.

[Al]

***Alert*** Cam cap bolts are 6-7 ft lbs or hand tight with the wrist wratchet. Do not overtighten them. Take a really good look at the cam cap bolts before you fit and discard any that have signs of narrowing or waisting on the prtion of the thread immediately below the plain shank!!!!!

You can shim the valves off the engine and then fit so long as you check when its all troqued down. Shouldnt change if the head is true and flat.
Make certain you have the head suspended above the lower mating face when shimming or you bend valves.
Re-torque the head several times after running for a short period of time. Minutes or so if possible. Naturally this needs to be done cold so the next day. Softly softly catchy monkey. Glue the cam chain tunnel oblong seal in the night before you put the head and gasket on. Leave the o ring proud but no gasket sealer round it.

'O' rings on the outer barrel studs are only correct if you have those type of barrels that are counterbored there at that location. Some arn't!!They go between the barrels top surface and the underside of the head gasket and i believe there are only two. If four then thats OK as well.

Copper washers will go again if they are not too chewed up on the surfaces. A light dressing will get them to a serviceable condition again. Any radial scores and replace them.

Glue the 'D' rubbers in the night before you fit the cam cover. Again leave them slightly proud of the heads top surface and with no gasket sealer on the mating face. Glue the carb holders onto the head the night before you fit the carbs. Put the screws in but do not fully tighten. Fully tighten the next day when you fit the carbs.

Not sure about the oblong 'O' rings what size are they approx.

If you need shims then put a request in the bike help section. They are bloody expensive to buy new.
I have a couple as do others on the site.


AL

[Al]

Gasket sets; Just on that subject there are a few after market ones about. I have bought two sets from Debbens and have had to also buy valve stem seals seperately from him because the valve stem seals in those sets can be a bit rubbish. Not always the case but.....

Similarly; the 'O' rings that go between the underside of the head gasket and the top of the barrels where they either are or aren't counterbored (round the outer most barrel studs) are not the correct size and again Ray (Debben) has supplied these additionally and looked at me a little odd when i asked for them at all.

Also as if that weren't enough, some of the cam chain tunnel 'O' rings are not big enough and 'pull back in' when you try to fit them to the rebate on the barrels.
Still cant think what the oblong ones are for. Getting old now and forget stuff even if it was the day before.

AL

[corpy]

Thanks, zorded, for the help.
That is a very light tighten for the cap bolts, considering their load but I guess that they are to be Loctited in. They came loose with a 'crack'.
The shims are under the buckets on this engine and the camshaft has to be removed to change them, so if I understand you correctly, the valves won't move off their seats if I do have to adjust the gaps.
I will look closely at the stud holes after a 24 hour break to do husbandly duties tomorrow. I wondered why the gasket set didn't include the barrel to head o-rings!
The long tunnel o-ring fits a treat - I was going to put a smear of Hylomar in top and bottom grooves, but you say no?
Now that I have SORNed the trike, the pressure to be quick is off and I am enjoying this more, but I wish I had checked Kaw prices before starting the job.
Just a smear of grease on block and head gaskets, would you say, or ditto Hylomar for belt and braces?
The torque of 20ft/lbs seems right for the size of the cam chain adjuster cap thread, but it is only a slim tiddly aly casting to be yanking on.
Thanks, I will return!

[Al]

That is a very light tighten for the cap bolts, considering their load but I guess that they are to be Loctited in. They came loose with a 'crack'.
Yes it is and you would need either a low range torque wrench or an angular torque wrench to do it correctly. Hand tight allows you to feel for the stretch and you'll be surprised at how soon that happens. Use the shortest 10mm spanner you have.
If you undo tham in 12 months again they will 'crack'.
Dont use loctite or any other semi permanent agents its not necessary just as it says in the book. 'S' stands for sequence!!

The shims are under the buckets on this engine and the camshaft has to be removed to change them, so if I understand you correctly, the valves won't move off their seats if I do have to adjust the gaps.
Not sure what you mean here because you have to do at least four valves at one time and necessarily there will be open closed and partially open valves on each cam shaft. What were youre running clearances and have you lapped the valves back in? If so you will have to do all that have been adjusted. On the bench you will be able to do this if you suspend the head above the lower mating surface because as you rotate the shaft to check the next valve others will open. If doing it on the engine set the pistons to half bore if the cam chain is not yet connected.

I will look closely at the stud holes after a 24 hour break to do husbandly duties tomorrow. I wondered why the gasket set didn't include the barrel to head o-rings!
Its the cam cap bolts themselves i was referring to and it will be obvious if you hold them up to the light that they have waisted since the plain shank should be parallel with the outer diameter of the thread all the way down.

The long tunnel o-ring fits a treat - I was going to put a smear of Hylomar in top and bottom grooves, but you say no?
No top groove Corpy and i meant to not leave gasket sealer around the outside of the oblong 'O' ring on what will become the gasket mating faces for the head gasket. Reason is that the head gasket is impregnated with a substance that is absorbed by the bare metal surface which if it has gasket sealer on will not happen and could lead to leaks there and elsewhere.
FYI i use Loctite 5910 which i have had from various sources including Debbens. Its this stuff http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_165691


Now that I have SORNed the trike, the pressure to be quick is off and I am enjoying this more, but I wish I had checked Kaw prices before starting the job.
Just a smear of grease on block and head gaskets, would you say, or ditto Hylomar for belt and braces?
No grease or hylomar on the head gasket. I put the cam cover gasket on with a faint wipe of engine oil on the upper surface of the cylinder head to prevent the cam cover gasket sticking to the head and no oil on the cam cover itself. This way when you take the cam cover off it will have the gasket stuck to the cover and not stuck to the head and you can continue to use the same one if its decent quality for some considerable time. Guess i'm just tight but it doesnt leak provided i do what i suggested to you about leaving the 'D' rubbers slightly proud of the head mating surface.

The torque of 20ft/lbs seems right for the size of the cam chain adjuster cap thread, but it is only a slim tiddly aly casting to be yanking on.
Corpy what would lead you to question this value?

AL

[corpy]

Thanks again, zorded. I have just snatched a bit of time in the workshop. Shock horror! 2 of the cam cap bolts have a 0.01mm smaller diam near the shank end of the thread (by just slipping the mic anvil on) which is probably ok, but one bolt was broken all the way through the diam., following a thread root, and hanging on by one thread. I snapped easily it in my fingers. I only saw the break when I held it up to the light. It is about 5mm along from the wash-out of the thread, and where it would enter the aly. They all roll smoothly along a flat surface. Certainly not mild steel! More expense.
Yes, S for sequence, no Loctite.
Of course you are right about the valves - I was thinking of only one! I didn't make a note of the gaps when I dismantled, but did record the shims. The gaps will need adj because I have rubbed the valves in and one inlet is new.
No tunnel top groove, as you said. I knew that but.......
Clever stuff about gasket impregnation, I am out of date.
With regard to the 20ft/lbs swing on the camchain adj cap, I have looked again at the aly casting and it isn't as thin and weak as I thought it was.
When I removed the head and block they were dirty, gritty and oil-covered through leakage, so I didn't take notes re o-rings because I thought it would all be 'in the book' I will clean round the bases of the holding-down bolts and look again at the o-ring situation tomorrow.
The 4 'oblong' o-rings I mentioned have semi-circular ends and are about 15x22mm external. I don't think I need them.
Thanks