ignition timing z1a

[pertonpc]

Cheers Mark
I don't know enough bout dwell angle to comment but I'm sure you are wise on that one. I got an old dwell meter somewhere though sooooo.....
what would symptoms be if dwell was out???

Also just re-read the original post and I was thinking... if he can't get the timing right on strobe unless 30 thou gap - could it be cams are not timed correctly?? remember Pigford saying these would still run if cam chain was one link out - and wouldn't that give difficulty in timing to the marks???
just a thought.
Comments awaited (fastening my helmet now )

[z1bman]

....should still be able to set/time it properly, as the advance had a different "curve", not effecting thesetting of the gap....

i think over the years some of these components have been superseded IE points / points backing plate/ + advancer. in the 70s i used to replace loads of these parts when customers chucked em down the road + never come across this problem a new part like the points backplate would never have to be modified by elongating the holes to get the ignition timing correct. i am not against people replacing points for electronic ignition but if your components ARE new you shouldn't have a problem ( famous last words )

[z1bman]

checked the valve timing a few weeks ago it looked like it was out one tooth on the inlet cam. re adjusted it put it back together run like a bag of shit. checked the compression was only 50psi so put it back to its original position + re checked compression 125 psi so i don't think it is the valve timing ?

[Garn 1]

I've had trouble with original and replacement points for years (much like irhobotolo). Nearly always had to elongate that backing plate holes.. even file the heel off the fibre rubbing blocks.... I once read that a tuning mechanic had found the problem from manufacturer. (see if I can find the article) he had to elongate the holes to get full advance on a new machine.

I changed over to DynaS , However I find depending on different bikes, the magnetic rotor marking (3 or 3A), I'm still am right on the limit of standard elongation of slots to get full advance.

Points require filing up after about 600K .. DynaS ... Never!
RegardZ.

[z1bman]

I've had trouble with original and replacement points for years. Nearly always had to elongate that backing plate holes.. even file the heel off the fibre rubbing blocks.... I once read that a tuning mechanic had found the problem from manufacturer. (see if I can find the article) he had to elongate the holes to get full advance on a new machine.

I changed over to DynaS , However I find ( depending on the magnetic rotor marking (3 or 3A) I still am right on the limit of standard elongation of slots.

Points require filing up after about 600K .. DynaS ... Never!
RegardZ.

cheers for that it would be a great help if you could find the article

[z1bman]

hi guys i am leaning towards the idea that either the cam lobe on the advancer has got too much lift ( or ) the heel on the points are too long. the original z1 advancer has the F mark considerably closer to the TDC mark than the later type which is fitted to this machine. with a points gap of about 14 thou this is about the position the F mark would be if i had an early type advacer

[Blackfox]

I was just wondering did you check your top dead center with a dial indicator gauge against your tdc marks the (F) mark is the real tdc i have found a lot of these marks are off a bit .


When i was running point's i always used the dwell meter to set them and when that was not around a matchbook cover always came in handy


But my timing light always worked out good because it has a advance knob on it so i could set my backing plate timing advance to 24 deg's dead on i had to grind some metal off the plate for the advance curve

[Garn 1]

The 5 page article referred to above, was by Anthony Seymour, in a popular Australian magazine dated October 87 pages 74 t0 78 (Can't find the name, possibly Two Wheels).
It was in a regular segment called "Spanner in the Works" and headed "Kawasaki 900 and 1000 (1972-1980)".
Alan Seymour gives a full rundown on servicing and tuning the bikes that made Kawasaki's reputation.
On his last page .... Practically every bike I checked had a retarded ignition timing (in the vicinity of five degrees) and to rectify this, you have to file slots in in the backing plate mounting holes to allow a range of adjustment.

I used to think I had been given Z650 point as a replacement, This convinced me there was a problem!.
RegardZ.

[irhobotolo]

I changed over to DynaS , However I find depending on different bikes, the magnetic rotor marking (3 or 3A), I'm still am right on the limit of standard elongation of slots to get full advance.
RegardZ.

The early bikes did have a different advancer but I dont think thats the issue with not being able to set the timing.
My dyna also has the sensors set right on the end of the slots to get the timing right. I was having to elongate the slots on a NOS "points and plate" set to get it anywhere near and then could only get one side 100 % right.
I have a spare 73 engine which I havent had running and that came with the points set halfway along the slots. On putting the complete set up with advancer onto my bike it wouldnt set up the same !!!
Be interested to hear more on this as I spent weeks trying different things before giving in and getting rid of the points. I also convinced myself that valve timing was out when it wasnt.

[z1bman]

my theory is the more lift on the advancer cam the wider the points will open. i did check that the T mark on the advancer was in line with the pointer on the points casing when no 1+4 cylinder was on TDC. also my snap on strobe light has a built in timing advancer mode built into the handle

[Blackfox]

The only other thing i can think of is the points them-self are wrong has happened to me before

[z1bman]

yes i think the problem is either the points or the advancer. the valve timing would have absolutely no effect on the ignition timing as the advancer is bolted directly to the crank + therefore has no barring on what position the camshafts are in. the spark is only released according to the crankshaft position + not camshaft position

[Garn 1]

I have seen later model advance /retard mechanism fitted to a Z1A and found that the TDC mark on the unit does not align as the original one did.

Their location is by a slot in the advance unit to a small dowel in the end of the crankshaft. You can set one unit up on the marks and carefully remove the unit and replace it with another and see if is still on the mark.
What is the identification Number on the advance mechanism? (eg 005).

RegardZ.

[z1bman]

I have seen later model advance /retard mechanism fitted to a Z1A and found that the TDC mark on the unit does not align as the original one did.

Their location is by a slot in the advance unit to a small dowel in the end of the crankshaft. You can set one unit up on the marks and carefully remove the unit and replace it with another and see if is still on the mark.
What is the identification Number on the advance mechanism? (eg 005).

RegardZ.

the identification Number on the advance mechanism is 005

[z1bman]

ok so i spent nearly 2 days at my friends earlier this week trying to sort this ignition problem. we replaced the complete back plate assembly with a genuine Kawasaki part. we fitted the back plate checked the points gap without adjusting anything . points gap was 14 thou. started the bike checked the timing with strobe light. timing was 10degrees out tried to adjust by turning the back plate + could only get it to fire 5 degrees before the F mark without elongating the holes in the back plate there was no other way of getting it to fire in the right position. we did try filing the heel of the points bit by bit until there was virtually no heel left on the points . this did absolutely nothing. we checked the advancer marks in relation to TDC+ this was spot on. after a lot of working things out i have come the the conclusion that the the problem is with the advancer cam. this is in the wrong position when fitted to the advancer shaft. the 2 slots which are machined into the cam were the advancer bob weights are located have been machined in the wrong place. this is why so many people are running theirs with elongated holes in the back plate + running with an excessively wide points gap