I've got a Z1000H1 Fuel injection, and I'm guessing the coil set up will be the same as the MK11's. I'm not getting a spark on my bike and was wondering if anyone knows if the output from the ballast resistor under the coils should be 12v. I've got 12v going in and 6v coming out the other side, is this normal??
A definative would be good to help me eliminate potemtial faults. Thanks
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Z1000 mk11 coil ballast block
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Mark Tiller
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Cheers I'm not sure if it should be 6v of resistant though or if the block is faulty. I'm slightly ignorant of this but my impression was that the + terminal on both coils should give 12v and as they are wired to the block which I am told is there to provide a safety mechanism for the coills I was wondering if 6v was too low?
When to use the Ballast Resistor!this is for the 13s but theory is the same.
see if this helps Paul J.....
Regarding the issue of the ballast resistor that comes on a KZ1300. There's only 2 instances where you'll keep the original ballast resistor on your bike.
#1: If you have the original coils still in place or have replaced them with OEM or NOS coils that are exactly like the stock coils (same ohm reading). Our stock coils have 1.5 ohm primary resistance. This applies to ALL KZ1300's. I can't speak for the guys overseas that have Z1300's or newer ZG1300's since these bikes were never imported to the USA. I suspect that all Z1300's are like KZ1300's, and have 1.5 ohm coils, and the European ZG1300's probably have the same coil our ZN1300 had which was a 2.7 - 3.0 ohm coil.
#2: If you replace your original coils with any other 1.5 ohm, or less than 1.5 ohm coil, then you need to keep the ballast resistor. I don't care where these replacement coils came from, whether they're off another Kawasaki, a H****, a boat, a car or an airplane. If they measure 1.0 - 1.5 ohms or less on the primary side then you need to keep your ballast resistor in the circuit. In either of these situations you need the ballast to bump the resistance back up to approximately 2.7 - 3.0 ohms which is what your igniter needs to see on the coil side to work properly. If you use car coils that are less than 1.0 ohm, then you might even have to buy a different resistor to bump the resistance up to the correct 2.7 - 3.0 ohm reading.
The reason for this is explained in detail on both the Accel page and the FAQ page on this site but I'll make it simple. ALL the igniters for ALL year KZ1300 and ZN1300's (I'm sure this includes Z1300's and ZG1300's also) were made to work with 2.7 - 3.0 ohm coils or within that 2.7 - 3.0 ohm range. However, when the 1300 first came out and for whatever reason, Kawasaki used a 1.5 ohm coil on the bike. To get the proper 2.7 - 3.0 ohm resistance that they designed the igniter to see on the coil side they simply added a 1.5 ohm ballast resistor in the coil circuit. Adding a 1.5 ohm ballast resistor to a 1.5 ohm coil gives you 3.0 ohms total resistance, and this is basically what all the igniters were designed to 'see'.
Why they used 1.5 ohm coils and added a 1.5 ohm ballast resistor I don't know. I didn't design the bike so I can only speculate. It appears they intended to use a 2.7 - 3.0 ohm coil from the beginning, but maybe there was a supply issue, and they couldn't get 2.7 ohm coils at that time. Maybe all they could get their hands on at the time were 1.5 ohm coils, so they figured it was simple enough to add a ballast resistor to the circuit and correct the issue. Either way, this is why the KZ1300's have a ballast resistor and the ZN1300's don't. When they started making the ZN1300 they put 2.7 ohm coils on the bikes from the beginning, so they didn't need the ballast.
The issue today is that most of the KZ1300's out there have either had the original coils replaced, or need them replaced now. So what do you do today to get good coils? However you want to look at it, using a ballast resistor in the coil circuit is a bad idea because it causes a voltage drop. Granted, when these bikes were brand new this setup probably worked just fine; for awhile anyway. After a few 1000 miles though, people started having hard start issues. I've seen the stock coils split wide open at only 7000 original miles!! It's obvious the stock coils didn't stand up to the heat very well. OK, so that was 1979, and now it's 30 years later.
Today we can take advantage of current technology, and get a much better coil on our bike that will cure any hard start issues related to weak spark, and drastically improve the way our bike runs with improved gas mileage to boot. If you're one of those guys that wants to keep everything original, then check your stock coils regularly, and keep your ballast resistor in the circuit. Keep in mind that should the ballast resistor fail, and short circuit rather than fail with an open circuit where no voltage passes, your igniter will be getting too much current through it, and it will burn up rather fast. If it gets an open circuit the bike will just quit running but it shouldn't damage the igniter. I don't want to speculate on how many times either one of these situations has happened, but I've seen quite a few burned up igniters where the insulation over the wires going into the igniter was just fried. So you tell me what happened.
Yes, it might be cheaper to mount up a Buick automotive coil pack like a few members have done. Since they appear to be under 1 ohm coil packs though, you'll have to keep the ballast resistor in the circuit to bump the total resistance up to 2.7 - 3.0 ohms. This may be a cheap way to keep the bike running, and I don't have a problem with saving money. But is this setup just as good as having Nology or Dyna coils on your bike? I don't think so, because I think our bike NEEDS the hottest coil we can get for performance reasons, and to get the best gas mileage. An automotive coil pack with a resistor in the circuit just doesn't provide the hottest spark. But it is a cheap way to get new coils on your bike.
IF there was a automotive 2.7 - 3.0 ohm coil pack available where we could drop the ballast out of the circuit, IF these coils put out even 35k volts, IF they hold up good long term, and IF they were reasonably priced new or used; then they might be good enough that there would be no need in my mind to look for something better. I don't know of any that fit these specifications at this time. I don't want to keep the ballast in the circuit, because I don't think you're getting enough voltage to those coils with that setup. If you lower the primary voltage you lower the secondary voltage, and we need the hottest spark we can get.
Replacing your original coils with stock coils is an OK way to keep riding. Replacing your original coils with a Buick coil pack is an OK way to keep riding, and these may actually work a lot better than the stock coils, so you should see some noticeable improvement. If you want to use a 2.7 - 3.0 ohm coil off a H**** or a Yamaha or Suzuki or any other bike, you might find a good deal on a set you can use on your KZ, and that's an OK way to keep riding. The only issue is how many ohms they measure. If you're replacing bad coils with one of these solutions, then you should at least notice that the bike starts easier, and runs better with some mileage improvement.
If you want to know what other bikes use 2.7 - 3.0 ohm coils so you can bolt them on and throw away the ballast, I'm not sure except that ALL ZN1300's used a 2.7 ohm coil and I've been told that a lot of Kawasaki's and H****'s use 2.7 ohm coils probably from about 1983 on. The Kawasaki coil should bolt right on just like the original coil and as a bonus, you can replace the spark plug wires. The original KZ1300 coils were made in such a way that the wires were molded to the coils, and you couldn't remove the wires from the coil. If you want the best coil you can get on your bike, then you'll probably want to try something else.
I've rejected the Accel coils because of the recent problems that have manifested with those as I state on the Accel page and below. Between the Dyna and Nology coils it's your choice, but I think the Nology's may have a better technology especially with their Hotwires, and the silver electrode spark plugs. They're smaller, lighter, easier to mount in the stock locations, and Nology's are usually the cheaper of the two brands.
I have found another coil that MIGHT work on our bike also. It appears some model Harley's use a 2.5 ohm coil, and I bought a set of Screamin Eagle coils off ebay to fit a Harley Davidson, and have tried to mount these on a KZ and a ZN. I think these may actually work just fine on our bikes, and they're supposed to put out over 30k volts, but the problem with these is that they're just physically too large compared to our stockers, and you can't get them mounted in there anywhere! There's just no room for these things unless maybe you have a fairing on your bike, and you want to mount them up inside the fairing. They're at least twice the size of the Nology coils, and more than twice as heavy. I think I'll pass on these.
So to sum up, the original ballast resistor on our KZ1300's SHOULD NEVER BE USED when replacing coils UNLESS you're replacing them with another <2.7 ohm set of coils. That would include an original style OEM Kawasaki 1300 coil, the Buick coil pack, any other coil pack regardless of what it came off as long as it measures 2.7 ohms or less, and any other motorcycle coil that measures 2.7 ohms or less. So you would use a ballast to increase the ohm rating to get the 'low' ohm rated coil up to what is required for our bike. If you want to know how to measure the primary resistance of a coil, refer to your service manual and use the same technique to measure any other coil you're looking at using. david@kz1300.com
see if this helps Paul J.....
Regarding the issue of the ballast resistor that comes on a KZ1300. There's only 2 instances where you'll keep the original ballast resistor on your bike.
#1: If you have the original coils still in place or have replaced them with OEM or NOS coils that are exactly like the stock coils (same ohm reading). Our stock coils have 1.5 ohm primary resistance. This applies to ALL KZ1300's. I can't speak for the guys overseas that have Z1300's or newer ZG1300's since these bikes were never imported to the USA. I suspect that all Z1300's are like KZ1300's, and have 1.5 ohm coils, and the European ZG1300's probably have the same coil our ZN1300 had which was a 2.7 - 3.0 ohm coil.
#2: If you replace your original coils with any other 1.5 ohm, or less than 1.5 ohm coil, then you need to keep the ballast resistor. I don't care where these replacement coils came from, whether they're off another Kawasaki, a H****, a boat, a car or an airplane. If they measure 1.0 - 1.5 ohms or less on the primary side then you need to keep your ballast resistor in the circuit. In either of these situations you need the ballast to bump the resistance back up to approximately 2.7 - 3.0 ohms which is what your igniter needs to see on the coil side to work properly. If you use car coils that are less than 1.0 ohm, then you might even have to buy a different resistor to bump the resistance up to the correct 2.7 - 3.0 ohm reading.
The reason for this is explained in detail on both the Accel page and the FAQ page on this site but I'll make it simple. ALL the igniters for ALL year KZ1300 and ZN1300's (I'm sure this includes Z1300's and ZG1300's also) were made to work with 2.7 - 3.0 ohm coils or within that 2.7 - 3.0 ohm range. However, when the 1300 first came out and for whatever reason, Kawasaki used a 1.5 ohm coil on the bike. To get the proper 2.7 - 3.0 ohm resistance that they designed the igniter to see on the coil side they simply added a 1.5 ohm ballast resistor in the coil circuit. Adding a 1.5 ohm ballast resistor to a 1.5 ohm coil gives you 3.0 ohms total resistance, and this is basically what all the igniters were designed to 'see'.
Why they used 1.5 ohm coils and added a 1.5 ohm ballast resistor I don't know. I didn't design the bike so I can only speculate. It appears they intended to use a 2.7 - 3.0 ohm coil from the beginning, but maybe there was a supply issue, and they couldn't get 2.7 ohm coils at that time. Maybe all they could get their hands on at the time were 1.5 ohm coils, so they figured it was simple enough to add a ballast resistor to the circuit and correct the issue. Either way, this is why the KZ1300's have a ballast resistor and the ZN1300's don't. When they started making the ZN1300 they put 2.7 ohm coils on the bikes from the beginning, so they didn't need the ballast.
The issue today is that most of the KZ1300's out there have either had the original coils replaced, or need them replaced now. So what do you do today to get good coils? However you want to look at it, using a ballast resistor in the coil circuit is a bad idea because it causes a voltage drop. Granted, when these bikes were brand new this setup probably worked just fine; for awhile anyway. After a few 1000 miles though, people started having hard start issues. I've seen the stock coils split wide open at only 7000 original miles!! It's obvious the stock coils didn't stand up to the heat very well. OK, so that was 1979, and now it's 30 years later.
Today we can take advantage of current technology, and get a much better coil on our bike that will cure any hard start issues related to weak spark, and drastically improve the way our bike runs with improved gas mileage to boot. If you're one of those guys that wants to keep everything original, then check your stock coils regularly, and keep your ballast resistor in the circuit. Keep in mind that should the ballast resistor fail, and short circuit rather than fail with an open circuit where no voltage passes, your igniter will be getting too much current through it, and it will burn up rather fast. If it gets an open circuit the bike will just quit running but it shouldn't damage the igniter. I don't want to speculate on how many times either one of these situations has happened, but I've seen quite a few burned up igniters where the insulation over the wires going into the igniter was just fried. So you tell me what happened.
Yes, it might be cheaper to mount up a Buick automotive coil pack like a few members have done. Since they appear to be under 1 ohm coil packs though, you'll have to keep the ballast resistor in the circuit to bump the total resistance up to 2.7 - 3.0 ohms. This may be a cheap way to keep the bike running, and I don't have a problem with saving money. But is this setup just as good as having Nology or Dyna coils on your bike? I don't think so, because I think our bike NEEDS the hottest coil we can get for performance reasons, and to get the best gas mileage. An automotive coil pack with a resistor in the circuit just doesn't provide the hottest spark. But it is a cheap way to get new coils on your bike.
IF there was a automotive 2.7 - 3.0 ohm coil pack available where we could drop the ballast out of the circuit, IF these coils put out even 35k volts, IF they hold up good long term, and IF they were reasonably priced new or used; then they might be good enough that there would be no need in my mind to look for something better. I don't know of any that fit these specifications at this time. I don't want to keep the ballast in the circuit, because I don't think you're getting enough voltage to those coils with that setup. If you lower the primary voltage you lower the secondary voltage, and we need the hottest spark we can get.
Replacing your original coils with stock coils is an OK way to keep riding. Replacing your original coils with a Buick coil pack is an OK way to keep riding, and these may actually work a lot better than the stock coils, so you should see some noticeable improvement. If you want to use a 2.7 - 3.0 ohm coil off a H**** or a Yamaha or Suzuki or any other bike, you might find a good deal on a set you can use on your KZ, and that's an OK way to keep riding. The only issue is how many ohms they measure. If you're replacing bad coils with one of these solutions, then you should at least notice that the bike starts easier, and runs better with some mileage improvement.
If you want to know what other bikes use 2.7 - 3.0 ohm coils so you can bolt them on and throw away the ballast, I'm not sure except that ALL ZN1300's used a 2.7 ohm coil and I've been told that a lot of Kawasaki's and H****'s use 2.7 ohm coils probably from about 1983 on. The Kawasaki coil should bolt right on just like the original coil and as a bonus, you can replace the spark plug wires. The original KZ1300 coils were made in such a way that the wires were molded to the coils, and you couldn't remove the wires from the coil. If you want the best coil you can get on your bike, then you'll probably want to try something else.
I've rejected the Accel coils because of the recent problems that have manifested with those as I state on the Accel page and below. Between the Dyna and Nology coils it's your choice, but I think the Nology's may have a better technology especially with their Hotwires, and the silver electrode spark plugs. They're smaller, lighter, easier to mount in the stock locations, and Nology's are usually the cheaper of the two brands.
I have found another coil that MIGHT work on our bike also. It appears some model Harley's use a 2.5 ohm coil, and I bought a set of Screamin Eagle coils off ebay to fit a Harley Davidson, and have tried to mount these on a KZ and a ZN. I think these may actually work just fine on our bikes, and they're supposed to put out over 30k volts, but the problem with these is that they're just physically too large compared to our stockers, and you can't get them mounted in there anywhere! There's just no room for these things unless maybe you have a fairing on your bike, and you want to mount them up inside the fairing. They're at least twice the size of the Nology coils, and more than twice as heavy. I think I'll pass on these.
So to sum up, the original ballast resistor on our KZ1300's SHOULD NEVER BE USED when replacing coils UNLESS you're replacing them with another <2.7 ohm set of coils. That would include an original style OEM Kawasaki 1300 coil, the Buick coil pack, any other coil pack regardless of what it came off as long as it measures 2.7 ohms or less, and any other motorcycle coil that measures 2.7 ohms or less. So you would use a ballast to increase the ohm rating to get the 'low' ohm rated coil up to what is required for our bike. If you want to know how to measure the primary resistance of a coil, refer to your service manual and use the same technique to measure any other coil you're looking at using. david@kz1300.com
PAULJAC47,,,,,"She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid."
-Han Solo
You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter
Salad is what real food eats.
Anon
PUM 673
-Han Solo
You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter
Salad is what real food eats.
Anon
PUM 673
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Mark Tiller
- Area Rep.
- Posts: 1772
- Joined: 12th Jun 2011
- Location: Stewkley, Leighton Buzzard
jonno B wrote:Cheers I'm not sure if it should be 6v of resistant though or if the block is faulty. I'm slightly ignorant of this but my impression was that the + terminal on both coils should give 12v and as they are wired to the block which I am told is there to provide a safety mechanism for the coills I was wondering if 6v was too low?
If it was faulty it would show 12v if short circuit or 0v if it was open circuit
Brilliant thanks, some helpfull stuff, will try the tests. The full story is that I've had the bike for 20+yrs and its been off the road for about 4yrs. It's got new coils(fitted at a bike shop) and has been starting fine, took it for a spin, got home and removed the LHS side panel to look at something and then went to ride it a few days later and no sparks. I chased the wires back with someone who knows more about electrics than me and the fault seemed to be with the ignition amplifier. As they are about £700 I decided to buy a Dynatech system (Dyna-S) as they apparently don't require the amplifier. I've wired it in but get the 6v reading from the coils and still no spark, interestingly if I use another 12v live rather than the red and yellow which I believe is the switched live, I get 12v at bot coil terminals rather than my current 6v and 2v ish. Two things, either I've done it wrong or there is another fault ie the ballast resistor. Dynotech have been really helpful and I'm working with them but was wondering if anyone else has fitted one or can help further. Thanks for your help so far.
E bay is calling at the moment but having had the bike so long and still being in love with it I'm not keen to give up just yet........
E bay is calling at the moment but having had the bike so long and still being in love with it I'm not keen to give up just yet........
Hi Jonno ,what primary resistance are the coils that the bike shop fitted?
This could be the clue!as the ballast restor is used on your old electronic system i reckon ,to change the coils primary resistance.if you are now using 3 ohmn coils and a Dyna S you can bin the ballast resistor...Paul J
This could be the clue!as the ballast restor is used on your old electronic system i reckon ,to change the coils primary resistance.if you are now using 3 ohmn coils and a Dyna S you can bin the ballast resistor...Paul J
PAULJAC47,,,,,"She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid."
-Han Solo
You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter
Salad is what real food eats.
Anon
PUM 673
-Han Solo
You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter
Salad is what real food eats.
Anon
PUM 673
Just do a "Wired by George" - dump the resistor & CDI box & stick with the Dyna S. If you've got less than 12v at coil then it needs sorting 
W by G is just a direct feed from the battery with a relay. There has been a few discussion about this on here, but its a good fix.
W by G is just a direct feed from the battery with a relay. There has been a few discussion about this on here, but its a good fix.
And on the 7th day... Zeds were created!
[quote="Pigford"]Just do a "Wired by George" - dump the resistor & CDI box & stick with the Dyna S. If you've got less than 12v at coil then it needs sorting
W by G is just a direct feed from the battery with a relay. There has been a few discussion about this on here, but its a good fix.[/
i did that to my old gs, following this nice simple (it needs to be for me
) picture......
http://www.wgcarbs.com//index.php?optio ... &Itemid=26
W by G is just a direct feed from the battery with a relay. There has been a few discussion about this on here, but its a good fix.[/
i did that to my old gs, following this nice simple (it needs to be for me
) picture......
http://www.wgcarbs.com//index.php?optio ... &Itemid=26
Excellent thanks for that. Good link as well cheers. Only question that may be a dumb one?? But here goes, wil the WBG fix work with the management system as its not a standard carb system on this bike as you know, its injected. This is where it starts to go over my head. Having said that I can't see why it wouldn't work.
One other quick question, any ideas why I'm getting two different volt readings out of the resistor when wired to different 12v lives wired to the Dyna S. This is reflected in the output then from the coils through both terminals. Doesn't make sense to me.
The other point is the box under the RH side panel that I'm calling the 'ignition amplifier', (IC IGNITER) does that link the management box in the tail with the ignition system. ;Looking at Zordeds diagram that appears to be the case. Unfortunately I don't have a wiring diagram for the H1 so this could be another issue though I'm told by Dynotech I vcan bypass the IC IGNITER which I'm sure must be true. Finally if you ditch the resistor do you just do a straight swap with the wiring to the coils?
The other point is the box under the RH side panel that I'm calling the 'ignition amplifier', (IC IGNITER) does that link the management box in the tail with the ignition system. ;Looking at Zordeds diagram that appears to be the case. Unfortunately I don't have a wiring diagram for the H1 so this could be another issue though I'm told by Dynotech I vcan bypass the IC IGNITER which I'm sure must be true. Finally if you ditch the resistor do you just do a straight swap with the wiring to the coils?
Test 5 is one of many lifted directly from the H models fuel injection manual. Do you have a copy of it?
BTW is says nothing about the ballast resistor!
There are many H owners on here using H models with and without the injection system so hopefully one will be along to give you the benefit of their experiences. I'm not the expert on magic smoke but people like Taffus and others are complete geniuses and may pick this up to get it sorted out. For now from the above; have you cable tied the clutch lever back to the bars or better still short circuited the cut out switch on the black ( i think ) wires beneath the tank?
Is the magnet in the rotor (dyna 'S' ) pointing directly at or in very close proximity to one of the fixed pick-ups on the new Dyna baseplate?
Fairly sure it will give different readings dependent on this factor.
As far as the Dyna 'S' and the ecu is concerned; i dont think the ecu sees a voltage for the ignition except if that falls outside of a range. I think it sees pulses to activate the injectors however these pulses probably need to be of a certain order of magnitude in order to be interpreted as such.
From recent experience i can say that it is possible to get an H with fuel injection to run perfectly with all its original components although a recent conversation LEFT ME WITH THE IMPRESSION THAT THERE IS AT LEAST ONE FUNDAMANTAL FLAW WITH THE SYSTEM THAT WAS THERE FROM NEW.
This flaw is not to do with voltage and does not effect starting or normal running.
One particular weak point seems to be the double relay beneath the LHS cover. They are available i believe.
The fuel injection manual has several pages on how to test them. More detail is given here about this component that any other in the system.
Also; some other components may be available from other suppliers. The fuel pressure regulator for example is the same as a Subaru / Peugeot or similar make i think.
AL
BTW is says nothing about the ballast resistor!
There are many H owners on here using H models with and without the injection system so hopefully one will be along to give you the benefit of their experiences. I'm not the expert on magic smoke but people like Taffus and others are complete geniuses and may pick this up to get it sorted out. For now from the above; have you cable tied the clutch lever back to the bars or better still short circuited the cut out switch on the black ( i think ) wires beneath the tank?
Is the magnet in the rotor (dyna 'S' ) pointing directly at or in very close proximity to one of the fixed pick-ups on the new Dyna baseplate?
Fairly sure it will give different readings dependent on this factor.
As far as the Dyna 'S' and the ecu is concerned; i dont think the ecu sees a voltage for the ignition except if that falls outside of a range. I think it sees pulses to activate the injectors however these pulses probably need to be of a certain order of magnitude in order to be interpreted as such.
From recent experience i can say that it is possible to get an H with fuel injection to run perfectly with all its original components although a recent conversation LEFT ME WITH THE IMPRESSION THAT THERE IS AT LEAST ONE FUNDAMANTAL FLAW WITH THE SYSTEM THAT WAS THERE FROM NEW.
This flaw is not to do with voltage and does not effect starting or normal running.
One particular weak point seems to be the double relay beneath the LHS cover. They are available i believe.
The fuel injection manual has several pages on how to test them. More detail is given here about this component that any other in the system.
Also; some other components may be available from other suppliers. The fuel pressure regulator for example is the same as a Subaru / Peugeot or similar make i think.
AL
1981 J1
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