Z1OwnersClub GB

I know we have a few closet lawyers on here so thought I would post this up for a sensible opinion.

I recently bought myself a classic car via an eBay auction. The description was good and one of the selling points was some structural repairs to a know rust spot on this type of car. I paid a price that would be an good price for this type of car if it matched the description. It also has 12 months MOT.

First thing I did when the car arrived (it came from Northern Ireland) was take it to a Porsche main dealer for a safety inspection. Cost me £150 but the report they gave me basically damns the car. The structural work is of a very poor standard, not done properly, unfinished and someone went to lengths to disguise it under underseal.

The seller wont respond to any communication and eBay say they cant help as cars are outside normal eBay protection. The Porsche dealer tells me that if I bought from a dealer then I have 100% protection in law but as it was a private vendor I am stuffed (they do think that I would get most of my money back by selling on for parts though).

I hate being ripped off and if it were local I would be round the guys house with a few big mates to sort it out but it's too far.

Anyone experienced something similar and got redress?

Martin,

THE FIRST thing I'd do is get VOSA involved.

The MOT has been a fraud.
I worked for VOSA as a vehicle examiner years ago, they take this sort of thing SERIOUSLY.

The MOT station will get SHUT DOWN.

As far as the "SOLD AS SEEN" pish we all keep hearing about, it is BOLLOCKS.
I buy and sell as a side line (I have a traders policy and invoices etc).
The law changed years ago to include PRIVATE sales as fit for purpose and described correctly.

The seller simply CANNOT say "sorry mate, private sale sold as seen" !!

Get into VOSA RIGHT AWAY.
That would then give you a PROPER unbiased report on the true mechanical condition of this car.
That report could be used as a reference for further departments to see, ie trading standards etc.

I would beat myself up with the "Porsche dealer" bit.
If you had bought it from a Porsche dealer you'd probably have paid about 10 GRAND MORE than you have done.

Let me know how you get on.

TOTAL SHITE THIS HAPPENING TO PEOPLE.

Martin, this is a TRUE STORY.
I will be pretty vague with bits of the story for obvious reasons.

A very good buddy of mine about 10 years ago bought a fancy expensive older 6 cly BMW via a local paper.

He paid about 3 grand for it. The guy was younger about late 20's. He lived in a BIG house with his parents.

My buddy DIDN'T even get home (25 miles) when it started knocking really bad.
I went round the next day and advised the engine bottom end was foooked. BIG MONEY STUFF!!
We took it to his work. He was a manager with a big tyre and exhaust company.
We checked it out on the ramp.
The list of defects was truly appalling!!
The car had been MOT'd the DAY BEFORE HE BOUGHT IT.
I am NOT making this up, a brake pipe BURST during our brake test!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyway, I put my old VOSA hat on and phoned the guy at his house.
I had him almost crying on the phone, I could actually smell his shite during the phone call. I threatened to involve VOSA. My buddy couldn't believe how I had come across on the phone.

I phoned the MOT station who had carried out the MOT.
I again threatened VOSA being involved.
The garage asked where the car was??????????????

They came through with the money paid and "took the car away".
It is my opinion that the car would have been DESTROYED and the young guy paid a visit at his big house to recover the paid price.

The whole set up was really bizarre!!!!!

I think it was a "pals" thing.
I'll pass the car today as long as you fix it all later.
The young guy then sold it and shafted the MOT station.
The MOT station knew they would be closed down if the car had ever been presented to VOSA, thus why the "evidence" was removed!!!!!

You have legal rights even with private individuals. If they have described the car and stated a condition and it is not as described there is recourse. If they have stated nothing or been very coy with their answers it gets very difficult. However you will have to go to court to claim your money back. You can use the small claims court procedure. You must have some very good evidence though i.e. emails, pictures, condition report etc.

https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for ... court-fees

Fees charged by the SCC:
Up to £300 £35 £25
£300.01 to £500 £50 - £35
£500.01 to £1,000 £70 - £60
£1,000.01 to £1,500 £80 - £70
£1,500.01 to £3,000 £115 - £105
£3,000.01 to £5,000 £205 - £185
£5,000.01 to £15,000 £455 - £410
£15,000.01 to £50,000 £610 - £550
£50,000.01 to £100,000 £910 - £815

Martin, typing too fast!!!!

I would beat myself up with the "Porsche dealer" bit.
If you had bought it from a Porsche dealer you'd probably have paid about 10 GRAND MORE than you have done.

Should have read......."I Wouldn't beat myself up"

Thanks guys. Porsche guy said it probably passed MOT as it is a visual inspection and the bodge was hidden under sealer. He also told me that MOT standard on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being as it left the factory is a 3. It is a minimum standard. Mot in Northern Ireland is done at a government run testing centre which should keep the mate's mot at bay.

jimmock wrote:Martin, typing too fast!!!!

I would beat myself up with the "Porsche dealer" bit.
If you had bought it from a Porsche dealer you'd probably have paid about 10 GRAND MORE than you have done.

Should have read......."I Wouldn't beat myself up"

Dick Lovett Porsche in Swindon. Safety inspection cost me £150 inc VAT. Ultimately could have saved me a fortune. Porsche have special pricing on parts and labour for "classics" as part of their commitment to their heritage. The workshop had as many old Porkers in it as modern stuff. Most things are fixed price so you know exactly what they going to sting you for.

I bought a classic car from ebay, advertised as rust free and never been welded. I didn't get to see it beforehand as it was too far away, but to be honest, it was a 33 year old car which was renowned for going rusty if a cloud went over. I kind of expected there to be some rust, and possibly other things wrong with it, not because the seller was trying to fool me, but rather, everyone has an overinflated opinion of their own vehicle.

For instance, I found this small patch of rust


Then removed the underseal to find



I had to turn the car upside down and make 38 repair panels to put the base unit back together. I wasn't that fussed because I wanted one to rebuild anyway, but there was certainly a lesson learned.

I'm not defending your seller as I don't know the whole story, but to be honest, I would never buy anything from ebay unless I had a good chance to give it a thorough inspection first - or - expect the seller to have at least a higher opinion of their pride and joy, and perhaps an amount of artistic licence.

Just my thoughts what car was it, any pics?

Richard

buying a classic car without viewing it is like playing russian roulette. a mate of mine bought a g reg 911 about 7 years back which was a complete rot box & at the time i had a g reg sierra & the under body of mine was like it left the factory compared to his porsche. it was eventually stolen (his version) & claimed of his insurance

how & when did you pay

As stated if you buy an old car it inevitably will of had some rust repairs.
Sadly not all people have the same view of what is a good repair and what is a good restoration,the same as bikes really..

The old reply is what do you expect its 30 years old..my reply is that is ok if it carries a 30 year old price!

Its buyer beware and I would not even consider buying a car sight unseen.

What Porsche is it as I may be looking for a project?

It's a 944 Turbo. It is a 28 year old car and as such you expect some work. What has got my back up is the deceit associated with the sill replacement. You can only see the issue with the car in the air and great lengths were gone too to disguise the bodge repair. The vendor assured me they were repaired professionally and properly. From the sides they look great. I do have photos but need to put them on photo bucket.

I will probably run it through the summer and then sell on but with an honest description. My fear is that if the car gets any form of side impact it will just fold.

I do know my way round a Porsche 944. This is my 3rd. Normally solid, reliable and can use it every day.

One of the VERY few things we got right in N.I. is our MOT testing! (IMHO)

It's done at government centres only, the testers are not on commission, are not allowed to "fix" the car etc. so it leaves very little room for "mates" deals etc.

Are you sure the MOT is real? Over here you get a certificate and a disc (like tax disc) for the window.
You could try ringing the NI MOT people.

This from their web site...

"If you have reason to believe the certificate you have been issued isn’t genuine please contact the Driver & Vehicle Agency (DVA) MOT enquiry line on 0845 6014 094"

Hope you get this sorted out.

Can't you still get sills from OPC?..
It wouldn't put me off if the rest of the car is ok.
Great cars as you say..i have had 6 of them over the years.